So who DO you agree with?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Dale-c, Aug 26, 2009.

  1. Dale-c

    Dale-c
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    Many here do not like terms like arminianism or pelagianism etc. I understand the desire not to have labels named after men but I have a more important point that I think needs to be pointed out:

    Who DO you agree with?

    If Pelagius was wrong on soteriology.....
    If the semi pelagian view is also wrong in your view....
    If armenian theology is wrong....
    If Weslyan theology was wrong....
    If Calvin was wrong....
    If Augusting was wrong.......


    Just who in church history got it right?
    Are you saying that no significant group in church history ever got it right until now?
     
  2. Marcia

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    I agree with the Bible. It is my sincere wish that all discussions on this topic would disappear from the BB. I see that that the Baptist Theology and Bible Study forum is now studded with such topics. Sad.
     
  3. rdwhite

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    I am saying that even now, our finite minds could never fully comprehend the magnitude and wisdom of God or fully understand the great intricacies of salvation. That only when we have the mind of Christ will we truly understand. Until then, each of these is merely man's feeble attempt to describe an infinite God and his mystery of salvation. While we are busy arguing the finer points, lost men are passing us by and we are missing opportunities to share the hope of Jesus.:praying:
     
  4. webdog

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    What can I add to the last two posts? Spot on! Since no man is infallible, no system is infallible. I can agree on SOME things from each of the systems in the OP. Why the need to "belong"?
     
  5. Jerome

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    "A man must have a stout digestion to feed upon some men's theology—no sap, no sweetness, no life, but all stern accuracy and fleshless definition. Proclaimed without tenderness and argued without affection, the gospel from such men rather resembles a missile from a catapult than bread from a Father's table. Teeth are needlessly broken over the grit of systematic theology, while souls are famishing. To turn stones into bread was a temptation of our Master; but how many of His servants yield readily to the far worse temptation to turn bread into stone! Go thy way, metaphysical divine, to the stone-yard, and break granite for McAdam, but stand not in the way of loving spirits who would feed the family of God with living bread." ---Charles Spurgeon, Feathers for Arrows
     
  6. here now

    here now
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    post deleted by poster.
     
    #6 here now, Aug 26, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 26, 2009
  7. webdog

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    deleted due to a previous deletion :)
     
  8. Lux et veritas

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    To say, "I agree with the Bible", and then wish that all discussions of theological views and systems would disappear, sounds very good, very noble, even very holy, but it is very flawed and wrong.

    Even the J.W.'s say that! The question is what do you believe the Bible is saying? And the moment you begin to answer that question, you have a "theological system", however simplistic or involved it may be. But you still have one.
     
  9. Lux et veritas

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    So you have a hybrid system. But you still have a 'system' by which you interpret the Bible. And if you read what you wrote you would see that you have in a sense elevated your learning above the combined understanding of the theologians of the Christian church for 1900 years.

    I can't wait to read your book.:thumbs:
     
  10. Lux et veritas

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    For those who don't like labels at all ... I suggest the next time you go grocery shipping, ask the store manager to rip all the labels off the products. Your shopping experience will become a good example of what it would be like if there were no 'labels' on belief systems.
     
  11. swaimj

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    Are you asking "who is infallible"? Are you asking "who has complete understanding of the mind of God"? It seems that you want us to identify that person or that system that is perfect. It seems that you have chosen one that you think is perfect and that explains everything. I have not identified that perfect person or perfect system. Therefore, I agree with Marcia. I believe the Bible, though I do not profess to understand everything that is in it.
     
  12. webdog

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    Nice backhanded Ad Hom :rolleyes: I never claimed to be more "elevated" than any theologian...but you know what? We all have the same Holy Spirit. You may have "heroes" who you think are infallible, but I don't hold anyone to that standard but God.

    Don't hold your breath on the book...I don't see that as being necessary to be strong in one's beliefs.
     
  13. Dale-c

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    My point exactly.

    This has shown that some do not agree with anyone in church history. Somehow they have been able to get a greater understanding of the Bible than anyone in the past.
     
  14. webdog

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    Problem is, a systematic theology that is already in place cannot be changed. I have (and will) change my views on a number of things over time (including TULIP) at the Holy Spirit's direction...something that is an impossibility for a system already in place. I'ts quite arrogant to think that only one system is infallible, and one "ism" is immutable truth.
     
  15. Dale-c

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    No, I am not. I am not even asking you to go along with a single person. I am asking what group in the history of the church you most closely agree with?
    Or did no significant number of people in church history ever get it right until now?

    Nope, I never even hinted at that at all.
    No, I want you to identify the system of theology that has been held by any significant number of Christians in church history that most closely reflects your own understanding of the Bible.

    Reformed theology certainly is the most accurate and I would say complete system I know of. It also is the closest to what I see in scripture. Of course those holding to it differ on minor points so none of us are fallible.

    I have not even tried to identify the perfect person, nor have I suggested one even exits.
    As for the perfect system, nothing is infallible except the Bible itself, However due to the wide range of beliefs that claim to be consistent with the Bible, we need to articulate what we believe the Bible to teach.

    Yeah, and so do Church of Christ ministers and JWs and Pentecostals and Presbyterians.
    Yet they do not agree with each other.

    So you believe the Bible? What does the Bible teach?
     
  16. Dale-c

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    That is true. However it is YOU that brought up this idea that anyone believes a system of theology is infallible.

    You are twisting my OP again. Please deal with what I actually ask, not what you read into my OP.

    The fact remains that either you substantially agree with some form of historical system of theology or you believe something that no group in history has ever come up with before.
     
  17. Johnv

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    The fact that so many church forefathers have differing views on scripture is a testament to the fact that the full wisdom and understanding of scripture cannot be fully contained or completely understood by the mind of fallible men. This should come as a comfort to all of us, that there is no need for us to have such an understanding of scripture in order to have right faith or doctrine.

    If anyone here says they've got it all right, that person is wrong.

    If anyone here says they've got it all right, and that anyone who holds a different view is not a bible believer, that person is not only wrong, but unrighteously wrong.
     
    #17 Johnv, Aug 27, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 27, 2009
  18. sag38

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    Some think they have God and the Bible wrapped up in a neat little theological box with a ribbon on top. Personally, I don't think it's quite that simple.
     
  19. Dale-c

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    True, though I have yet to see anyone here claim that....well, not in a while.

    Yes, and the one person who used to claim this rather often was shown the door.

    I do not see the connection there with the OP though.
    This is not about people claiming to have perfection of Biblical understanding.

    This is about asking what system of theology best describes a person's own understanding up the Bible.
    It does not mean that the person OR the system is infallible.
     
  20. Dale-c

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    Which is why we see little tiny 1 page doctrinal statements now where we used to see much larger confessions at one time.
    I say "see" of course I was not around at that time, though my church does hold to the 1689 Baptist confession.
     

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