So you're a sick senior citizen and the government says there is no ...

Discussion in 'News / Current Events' started by Crabtownboy, Aug 29, 2016.

  1. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy
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  2. Jordan Kurecki

    Jordan Kurecki
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    And yet you are against capital punishment and think the rest of innocent society should continue providing that for murderers.
     
  3. TCassidy

    TCassidy
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    Jordan, do you believe capital punishment is justly and even-handedly dispensed in this country?

    Do you believe all life is precious and is a gift from God?

    What do you think about those who have been put to death who, later, were found to have been not guilty of the crime they were convicted of (usually by DNA evidence)?

    Do you have a means to keep these terrible injustices from happening?

    And, if you support our present system of capital punishment, are you willing to "push the button" yourself? Are you willing to take the life of a person who may not be guilty of the crime he has been convicted of?
     
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  4. 777

    777
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    There hasn't been anybody exonerated after being put to death in the US but there are several people that could have been innocent:

    http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/executed-possibly-innocent

    Actually, DNA evidence makes this kind of thing less likely, hope the days of seeing people be cleared off of death row after years served are over.

    Really, I think the death penalty is applied too random and too arbitrarily to be effective - you have to live in a certain state to get it and all, and, no, I wouldn't want to push the button to deliver the deadly dose, just as I'd never do an abortion.
     
  5. Jordan Kurecki

    Jordan Kurecki
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    1. is any judicial system handled justly and even handedly?
    2. Yes all life is precious and a gift, but if you commit murder it is your own fault if you are executed in return.
    3. I think it is a sad thing if the innocent have their life taken away, but ultimately I know that God is sovereign and just. He will avenge any wrongs done in this way, and for those who repent and trust Christ they shall be saved for eternity anyway.
     
  6. TCassidy

    TCassidy
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    I asked "Jordan, do you believe capital punishment is justly and even-handedly dispensed in this country?"

    You answered a question with a question. This is just a way to avoid answering the question. Also called a "cop out."

    I asked "Do you believe all life is precious and is a gift from God?"

    To which you replied:

    I agree. But how do you know, for sure, the person is guilty of murder?

    You are a bible believer. What is the biblical requirement for making a judgment? On the testimony of two or three people? 2 Corinthians 13:1 In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

    So, did two or three people witness the murder?

    I then asked, "What do you think about those who have been put to death who, later, were found to have been not guilty of the crime they were convicted of (usually by DNA evidence)?"

    To which you said:
    Sad? A man is killed unjustly and it just only "sad?" His wife is left a widow and it is only "sad?" He children are left fatherless and it is only "sad?" It is a tragedy! An innocent man is dead!

    And I can't help but notice you did not answer the last two questions. Here they are again:

    "Do you have a means to keep these terrible injustices from happening?"

    What do you recommend to make such punishment just and even-handed?

    And I also asked you:

    "And, if you support our present system of capital punishment, are you willing to "push the button" yourself? Are you willing to take the life of a person who may not be guilty of the crime he has been convicted of?"

    Are you so sure that you are willing to be the one who kills the man?

    Jordan, don't get me wrong. I am neither attacking your nor attacking the biblical concept of capital punishment. But I am hoping to get you to think about how you actually feel about the subject. Carefully and prayerfully rethink everything you now believe about killing those who have been convicted of a capital offense (convicted justly or unjustly).

    It never hurts to occasionally get away, take out our soul, and examine it for holes and other flaws. :)
     
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  7. Jordan Kurecki

    Jordan Kurecki
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    Well... I like the idea of going by a mouth of two or three witnesses rule.
     
  8. TCassidy

    TCassidy
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    Yes. It has not been proven to have happened in the US. But DNA evidence has allowed the exoneration and release of more than 17 death row inmates since 1992 in the United States.

    And there are another 10 who were executed but probably innocent, although we don't know for sure.

    But it has happened several times in the UK, Australia, China, etc.

    I agree. Too random and much too arbitrary.

    And I wouldn't want to push the button either, unless I personally had witnessed the crime and could find no mitigating circumstance to commute the sentence. But I would also take personal responsibility for my actions.
     
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  9. TCassidy

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    So you would be against the death penalty unless there were two or three eye witnesses who all told the same story?
     
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  10. Jordan Kurecki

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    I guess so, unless there is some other evidence that proves 100 percent, like video evidence, or a confession.
     
  11. Jordan Kurecki

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    But of course there have been great advances in forensics though. So I'm not really too sure.
     
  12. TCassidy

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    It's good to see you are thinking about it. I agree that evidence other than eye witness can be very compelling. And I might vote for a capital sentence, were I on a jury hearing such a case, with less than two or three eye witnesses. As you mentioned forensics have come a long way. Blood spatter on the suspect places him at the scene, as do epithelial cells which can also provide DNA evidence.

    Good discussion. It never hurts to rethink what we already think we know. :D
     
  13. HankD

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    Solution : Instead of execution put any condemned to death in an induced coma and then wake them up if it is discovered they are not guilty.

    HankD
     
  14. Crabtownboy

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    Would be much more expensive than simply keeping them alive in jail until they are found innocent.

    In fact, it is less expensive to keep a person alive in jail than to go through the entire hoops and barrels that we have now in executing a person. Rather stupid I think.

    Don't you believe that because there are innocent people on death row that is reason enough not to execute anyone?
     
  15. Jordan Kurecki

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    Did God know Naboth in the Old Testament would be falsely executed by Ahab?

    Apparently God didn't think that was enough to withhold the whole system of death for blasphemy?
     
  16. HankD

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    "Expensive" is not the issue IMO.

    But yes, I agree that the death sentence should be abolished but only if "Life Imprisonment" actually meant "Life Imprisonment" and not a sabbatical of "3 hots and a cot" for a short season.

    HankD
     
  17. StefanM

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    For me the question comes down to the innocent. I would rather keep all convicts in prison for life without parole than risk killing an innocent man or woman.

    I am not opposed to the death penalty in theory, but in practice it has some major flaws, and, IMO, we can't assume a just process at this point.

    I would be much more willing, as you seemed to indicate, to condone the practice if we could guarantee that only those truly, unequivocally guilty are executed. That would likely require a higher evidentiary standard than "beyond a reasonable doubt." I think that follows the spirit of the "two or three witnesses" rule.
     
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  18. Crabtownboy

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    God knowing and God approving are two different things.
     
  19. Jordan Kurecki

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    this is a dishonest method of distracting from the point I made. In question is not whether God approved of Naboth dying despite his innocence. But the fact that God approved of the death penalty knowing full well that it would be abused. If God approved of death penalty in spite of the abuse of it, then surely we can to. Unless you want to hold us to a higher standard than God....
     
  20. Crabtownboy

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    Show me where Christ approved of the death penalty.

    Are you living under grace or OT law?

    I live under the grace of Christ. As God revealed himself to us, with the fullest revelation being Christ is shows that God, in his fullest, revelation does not approve of the death penalty.
     

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