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Featured "Sold Under Sin" - Rom. 7:14

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by The Biblicist, Jul 20, 2013.

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  1. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    I get it. I understand your argument. And I reject it.

    Again, you would have to believe that Paul was an absolute failure as Christian if your view is true.

    I don't believe Paul or any of the apostles were sinning constantly. I believe they were very holy men who obeyed God most of the time. Did they slip up and sin at times? Of course. But your interpretation of this passage would make Paul to be a continuous sinner with no victory whatsoever over sin.

    I reject your view, as have many dozens if not hundreds of serious scholars through the centuries. Not one of the early church fathers until Augustine held your view, not one.

    Of course, you MUST hold to your view, because Calvinism depends on it. You are not interested in maintaining the truth of scripture, you are interested in maintaining Calvinism at any cost.
     
    #61 Winman, Jul 20, 2013
  2. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    I don't care what other men say, I know Paul is speaking of himself before conversion because he said he was "sold under sin" in verse 14. No Christian is sold under sin, we have been made free from sin.

    The only reason I showed other scholars is because none of you Calvinists are going to listen to a layman like me who simply reads the Bible. So I showed scholars from the past who agree with my view, which were many. In fact, all of the early church fathers until Augustine believed this passage was speaking of Paul before conversion.

    To believe verses 14-25 are speaking of a regenerate man is to believe Paul was an utter failure as a Christian with no victory over sin. This view is past ridiculous and absurd.

    1 Jhn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

    No person who is truly born of God sins continuously. If Biblicist's view is correct, all a person can conclude is that Paul wasn't saved. Absurd.
     
    #62 Winman, Jul 20, 2013
  3. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Rejecting it is not the issue. Your are REPLACING God's words with your words. You are jerking His words out of their inspired context and placing them in YOUR own context.


    That is the point! Any Christian operating by his own will power will ALWAYS end in defeat and frustration. :BangHead:

    That is the point! Otherwise the instruction in Romans 8:11-13 is useless, worthless, if you could overcome the law of sin by your own will power - Rom. 7:18b. :BangHead:

    Then you believe they were always sinless constantly as there is no other option. If you are not sinning you are sinless and John says those who take that position are deceived.

    In regard to the sins of ommission none are without sin any time of the day as none measure up to sinlessness and sinlessness by definition is "without sin."

    Whenever a Christian is not "walking" in the Spirit he is sinning willfully as that is a command he is breaking.


    As long as you war against sin "after the flesh" (Rom 7:14-25) you never have victory. That is why Romans 8:9-13 is provided so one can have victory over indwelling sin - willful sin. No one can have victory over sins of omission. But no one has victory over sins of commission ANY TIME they are warring against sin after the flesh (Rom. 7).

    That is your choice and you are free to have it. However, don't expect to defend it and others be silent.

    You don't know my motives so why attempt to pretend you do? I was a devout anti-Calvinist before I came to the truth and so if your theory was correct I should still be an Arminian because I always approach scripture simply to defend my own views. Really this is more of a judgement upon you than me as you never held my present view did you???? How does it sound when I say you approach scripture just to defend your Arminianism?????
     
    #63 The Biblicist, Jul 20, 2013
  4. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    The op asked this thread be closed since it obviously has degenerated into typical name-calling.

    Sometimes I truly wonder about some of you regulars here that spew the same venom over and over. :(
     
    #64 Dr. Bob, Jul 21, 2013
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