Soldiers Are Different

Discussion in '2006 Archive' started by pinoybaptist, Aug 30, 2006.

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  1. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist
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    I seldom post this long, guys and dolls, but I think this is a good article worth the read.


    REMINDER TIME




     
  2. The Galatian

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    Yeah, soldiers are different. They soldier on loyally, obeying the lawful orders of their leaders.

    But they aren't stupid. Why do you think so many retired generals are demanding that Rumsfeld be sacked?

    It's because he's a total failure as a leader.

    Do you think soldiers don't know what America knows about Bush? Of course they do. But they are good soldiers and so they go on, as they swore to do.

    But they aren't stupid.
     
  3. Not_hard_to_find

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    A thorn of complaint among the garlands lauding those who serve our nation.

    We, the many, still owe them, the few, so very much. The majority of Americans remain grateful for their service.
     
  4. pinoybaptist

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    Why, Galatian, whoever said soldiers were stupid. I didn't, did you ?

    Why bring up your favorite whipping boys, and run me down along with them.

    The article did not praise Rumsfeld or Bush, did it ?

    If at all, it points out the difference between some big mouths who can't put their money where their mouths are, in comparison with soldiers who take what the enemy have to dish out no matter what it takes.

    Interesting to note that the Medal of Honor awardees in the links provided by the author mostly served in the late 60's, when anti-war movements were gaining momentum and soldiers were being called baby killers. Remember the chant: hey, hey, lbj, how many kids did you kill today ?

    This was also the Calley era, and about the same time when troops began "potting" up in their foxholes.

    Oh, sure, they were not "stupid", they knew the issues being raised against their presence in Vietnam, just as today's soldiers know the issues being raised against their presence in Iraq and Afghanistan, but, hey, I don't see them marching in the streets when they get home. Some of them, I heard, actually go back to Iraq.

    So, what ruffled your feathers, Galatian ? What hurt your feelings ? Something bothering you ? You okay ?
     
    #4 pinoybaptist, Aug 30, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 30, 2006
  5. carpro

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    Simple really.

    He doesn't understand that "[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Duty, Honor, Country are more than words."

    And he doesn't agree that[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif] "All those who seek to undermine military action for partisan advantage do so on the foundation of efforts and sacrifice of the soldier.", since he is one of them. [/FONT]
     
  6. El_Guero

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    PB

    I still salute our men and women that are brave enough to offer themselves as the ultimate sacrifice for freedom.

    God bless them,

    Wayne
     
  7. The Galatian

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    This one...

    They do not feel they were lied into a war.[/quote]

    Of course they know it. They would be stupid if they didn't. Even many republicans now admit it.

    I remember. I served back in that time, and and yes, it was embarassing to know that some of our troops committed that kind of atrocity, and doubly embarassing that an American president pardoned the man responsible.

    Some of them have deserted. Some have mutinied. Others lost it entirely and murdered and raped. Most of us, as did most of them today, go and do what we swore we would do.

    If you're feelings are hurt, I'm sorry. I'm just observing that the fool who wrote that is wrong about American soldiers being stupid.

    And here's a classiic from the board's armchair hero...

    He doesn't understand that "[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Duty, Honor, Country are more than words." [/quote][/FONT]
    [FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][/FONT]
    [FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]But then he says...[/FONT]

    [FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]And he doesn't agree that[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif] "All those who seek to undermine military action (translation: don't agree with the war) for partisan advantage (translation don't agree with me) do so on the foundation of efforts and sacrifice of the soldier."[/FONT]
    [FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][/FONT]
    One paragraph he blathers on about "Duty, Honor, and Country", as though that meant something to him, and the next paragraph, he complete rejects all three. No American worthy of the name would say such a thing. It is contrary to everything the Founders worked for. Men like Jefferson, Lincoln, and Adams strenuously objected to various military actions undertaken by the US.

    But of course, people like them aren't carpro's kind of Americans.

    Thank the Lord few people are.
     
  8. El_Guero

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    WHEW!

    Pinoy - again there are those of us intelligent enough to realize that patriotism and freedom are not limited to the intelligent or the stupid . . .

    Thank God we have a military willing to risk their lives for our freedom!

    Thank you for giving us the opportunity to thank the men and women that give us the freedom to have this board.

     
  9. billwald

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    If we are at war then Congress is obligated to declare war and name the enemy states.
     
  10. Gina B

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    I quit reading after number one, which stated we ARE at war. I frantically searched the internet to figure out when this happened, and I'm coming up empty.

    Please explain what this is about..
     
  11. mcdirector

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    Thanks Bro!

    My husband was a marine during Viet Nam.

    dittoing Wayne:
     
  12. The Galatian

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    I wish that we had an administration who respected them.
     
  13. El_Guero

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    My hat off to him for his service . . .

    There were more discontents back then. And that time we were may not have been in the right . . . That made vietnam service much more difficult.

    Tell him there are a lot of us vets out here that appreciate his service.

    Wayne


     
  14. El_Guero

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    Galatian

    There ain't nothing wrong with you that a couple of infantry tours in Iraq won't fix . . .
     
  15. The Galatian

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    Don't think they take soldiers this old... I was out in 1978. More to the point, there isn't anything wrong with the chickenhawks running the war, that a tour in Iraq wouldn't fix.

    As former Armed Services Committee chairman, F. Edward Ebert, remarked about slackers like Bush and Co.:

    "The only war them boys been in was a bood-war."

    Those people who are enthusiastic about sending more bodies into that no-win mess, should be sent there to accompany a Marine rifle platoon for an introduction to reality.
     
  16. El_Guero

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    Galatian

    This isn't 'Nam. Get over it already - that was a life time ago. Just because most of America is behind the soldiers this time is no reason to keep holding your old grudge. Get over it.

    I served under Clinton - I was over him a long time ago. I could say ten times more negative about his presidency . . . but it is over. We live in today. The terrorists are attempting strikes somewhere in the world every month. Every month. Every month.

    Be proud of our men and women - at least they have bought you fewer terrorist strikes . . . here in the USA.
     
  17. mcdirector

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    Amen~~~~~~~~
     
  18. The Galatian

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    You'd have a hard time convincing Americans of that. We're going down the same road, with the same results.

    You know, I never felt that people weren't behind me during the Vietnam war. No one spat on me. When I was in uniform, people would come up and thank me. Here and there, someone would say something, but not much. I would hope you would be as much for the troops as I am. And I certainly hope your take on the war wouldn't change that.

    If you look at the guys who served back then, you have to conclude that most of us were less damaged by the war than American was generally. And that's how it is now. The fact that Americans don't support Bush's war in Iraq doesn't mean that they don't support the toops.

    The best advice I can give you is: Get over it.

    True. If Clinton was running against Bush today, he'd win in a landslide. Prosperity and integrity in government is usuallly well regarded. Last poll I saw had Clinton as one of the best presidents, and Bush as the worst.

    And we're stuck in a military mess in Iraq. And now we can get out without an even greater disaster.

    Perhaps you should be proud enough of them to have some regard for them. They aren't just robots. You think the Americans who want them out of there aren't proud of them? Be honest with yourself, at least, and admit that's wrong.

    Um, no. Good police work did that. And Bush hastily restored some of the things Clinton was doing to keep terrorists at bay. Fighting Saddam let the terrorists regroup. They are starting to come back in Afghanistan, because troops were withdrawn to salvage the mess in Iraq.

    You'd probably do better to stop trying to hide behind the flag and admit that the majority of Americans who oppose the war make a distinction between the fools who got us in it, and the troops who are doing a fine job in a bad situation.
     
  19. El_Guero

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    Galatian

    Get over it.

    Unlike yourself - I do not hide behind the flag and air my personal political beliefs for you to know in a nutshell.

    You are scarred for life - if it wasn't vietnam then it was something.

    Get over it.

    We got tricked into going to war. Clinton has come out in support (occasionaly for and occasionally against), Kerry voted for it, and over 70% of the public was for it.

    I was probably one of the few against the war before we invaded.

    Like I said, get over it. Support our troops. Support the enlisted. Support the officers. Support the supreme US commander - the President.

    I didn't whine like this when President Clinton left Rangers to be dragged through the streets . . .

    There is only so much an elected official can do. And while the polls may vote one way on President Bush's record - the war has gone much better than Vietnam, Korea, and even much of WW2.

    I don't ask you to cut him some slack or even pay him respect - but pay his office the respect that it is due.

    Get over it.

    Support the Troops and their Commander in Chief. If you really do have a better solution, go over there and fix the problem.
     
  20. The Galatian

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    I see the denial, but what you did is still on the board.

    You're upset because you tried to hide behind the flag, and got called on it. Get over it.

    Even Bush now admits that we weren't told the truth.

    Indeed. I was for it. But now that we know we weren't told the truth, most of us are against it. Keep in mind, that I'm not advocating a pullout. Now that Bush has fouled things up, we can't withdraw without causing an even greater disaster. Notice that he's quit giving us the optimistic propaganda? Good reason for that. Rove tells him it's not selling anymore.

    I guess if you're willing to hide behind the flag, you'll hide behind the troops, too. Pretty spineless, actually. Be a man and stand up on your own. The majority of Americans who are disgusted with the mess Bush has put us in, support the troops. Asking more of the same thing that's killed well over a thousand of them, is not "supporting" them.

    He's not my supreme commander nor is he yours, or any other civilian's. He's just a public official who made a horrific error, that killed thousands of people, and he's trying to find someone else to blame for it.

    Of course, as you know, he didn't. What did happen, was that when he realized that his Secretary of Defense messed up and people got killed, he fired him. Bush, when Rummy's incompetence killed people, (after which he lied about why it happened) Bush praised him.

    Yes, blame fate. I hadn't thought of that. Bush has one more way to evade responsibility for his actions.

    It went better than Pearl Harbor for example.

    Sorry, he's president, not king. It's my responsibility as an American to criticize him when I see him doing the wrong things.

    You need to stand on your own two feet, quit hiding behind the flag and the troops, and support them for a change, instead of advocating more of the same useless activity that killed so many of them already. If you want to support them, do it, instead of supporting the fools who caused this debacle.

    The generals working for Bush had a better solution. And the incompetents in his administration made fun of them, only to later admit that they had been right all along. Too late for hundreds of American troops.
     
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