Some Christian Apologists Fail the Test

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by George D. Foss, Nov 1, 2015.

  1. George D. Foss

    George D. Foss
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    C.S. Lewis, G.K. Chesterton, Malcomb Muggeridge, and Mortimer J. Adler, are four examples of the best-known intellectuals and scholars of our time who became Christian apologists. These are a few of the names that are continually referenced in most literary circles on the subject of Christian apologists. Through their works, and because they are held in such high esteem, many people are led to accept what they say as gospel. I have read much of what they have written, and although I find all four are profound, insightful, and sincere in their own quest to find and understand Christianity, all four fail the final test. That is, it is evident to me that none of them really understand what God has revealed to man. The reason for this failure, I believe, is their prideful blindness that leads to the undoing of the wisest men when they are confronted with a Being infinitely wiser than they are. All four unwittingly profess to know the mind of God better than God Himself.

    The evidence I cite convinces me that none of these four men, and others like them, have never fully grasp the certitude of Scripture. This deficiency seems to be a problem of circumstance common to all four stemming from their formative years, their early education, mentors, and their higher than average intellect. On first blush it seems incredible that men of such intellect could not subdue their pride in this instance, but it seems clear to me that all four have made the same error. They all have one fundamental spiritual problem; not believing the unbridled integrity of the Word of God, not believing with certitude that what God said, He meant, and what He meant He said. The God of the Bible is very articulate and precise. He says exactly what He means and means exactly what He says. He told Israel exactly what they needed to do to receive His blessings. He told Moses exactly how to build the tabernacle. He told Noah exactly how to build the Ark. And in Genesis 1, He tells us exactly what he means concerning mankind.

    These four men and many others like them do not fully concur that the Word of God is accurately and completely recorded in Holy Scripture. Where there is no humility to accept the mystery, no patience to receive interiorly what one has not yet understood, to carry to term, and to let it open up without reservation, the seed of the Word has fallen on rocky ground.


    A thorough examination of the lives of these men readily supports my views pertaining to their shortcomings in regard to their credibility as it relates to the Word of God.
     
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  2. Baptist Believer

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    What is this test?

    What is its basis in scripture?

    How is evidence evaluated?

    What is this supposed to mean?

    How does one determine if another person has really understood "what God has revealed to" men and women?

    Please provide evidence that they have "profess[ed] to know the mind of God better than God Himself."

    You have cited no evidence.

    What does it mean to "fully grasp the certitude of Scripture(sic)?"

    You capitalized scripture previously - hinting that you might consider scripture as a person - and now I see the "Word of God" which I always understand to be Jesus (John 1). However, your context indicates you are probably talking about scripture. May I point out that it is a grave theological error to equate Jesus with scripture and/or elevate scripture to the level of deity?

    That issue aside, how have these persons not believed "the unbridled integrity of the [w]ord of God"?

    I should note here that what you write is not necessarily true. Jesus spoke in parables and the author of Hebrews frequently wrote things along the lines of "it is written somewhere that..."

    The popular God of American evangelicalism is very precise and "says exactly what He means", but that's a cultural corruption of what is actually in the scriptures.

    Yes.

    I'm not sure to what you are referring.

    Is it that men and women are created in the image of God?

    Is this about being given stewardship of the earth, and caring for it and the animals in an appropriate way?

    1. That Jesus is not accurately and completely recorded in the scriptures? Where is you evidence?

    2. That the word of God (from your phrasing is apparently distinct from the scripture), is not accurately and completely recorded in the scriptures? What is your evidence?

    What is this supposed to mean?

    What aspects of their lives fail your litmus test regarding Jesus (or scripture)?
     
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  3. Crabtownboy

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    What is your understanding of the term you use, certitude of Scripture?
     
  4. go2church

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    George...it sounds like you're making stuff up
     
  5. Bro. James

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    George, do not be disheartened by the apparent lack of acceptance of your position. The wonderful world of Christendom is overrun with humanistic, ecumenical hogwash. The whole world is totally depraved, including the Most Right Reverend Doctors, Popes and Potentates. See John 3:5 in context.

    Denominational point: true Baptists are not Protestants as defined by the religious powers that be(Rome and her daughters). Consequently, true Baptists are not a denomination. There is no such entity as: The Baptist Church; by the same token, there is no Universal church nor Christian Church. The first churches were called by: The Way, That Way, Churches of Galatia, churches in homes, etc.
    There is nothing universal visible or invisible--but rather specific assemblies in specific places. Most of Christendom skoff at such notions.

    Thank God for your input George. There are at least two of us still standing. It is OK--the inquisition is over--kind of. Where are those who will preach John 14:6--to the death?

    Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

    Bro. James
     
    #5 Bro. James, Nov 2, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2015
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  6. tyndale1946

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    All men walk with feet of clay in the OT & NT and now!... There is none good even Jesus said so... Cheer up George!... Brother Glen

    Matthew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

    19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
     
  7. go2church

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    Well....I'm glad George has his supporters. I guess. Still looks like he is making stuff up, but hey now he has buddies, so there's that.
     
  8. Yeshua1

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    Know that CS Lewis held to a more limited inspiration viewpoint of the scriptures, as he saw Genesis as a Myth with spiritual meanings to us, but what about those other 3?

    And one can be saved and a Christian and yet have inferior views on the Bible. correct?
     
  9. Revmitchell

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    What evidence was cited?
     
  10. Bro. James

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    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Check out: Chesterton.org/why-I-am-a-catholic

    See also: Mortimer J. Adler, follower of Aristotle and Aquinas; interests: philosophical theology, metaphysics, ethics. source: Wikipedia, etal.

    Malcolm Muggeridge: an agnostic, Anglican, Catholic in that order. source: Wikipedia, etal.

    "It is no wonder, Satan himself is become an angel of light."

    "Beware of wolves dressed like sheep"

    Will the real Christians please stand up?

    Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

    Bro. James
     
  11. HankD

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    I don't believe any regenerated mortal while in the flesh can completely comprehend the scriptures and can only make a primitive analysis of the mind, person and character of God and that only in the basics of language e.g. God is holy ,God is love God is eternal, etc...

    Why then are the scriptures given?

    My opinion...

    NKJV 2 Corinthians 3:18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.

    As we gaze into the word and are filled with the reflection of His wonder and glory the Spirit of God transforms our persona and we carry His reflected glory out into the world where we become living epistles read of men.

    Then there can be no denial that there is a God because the fruit of the Spirit is not natural but supernatural and unattainable by unregenerate mortals.

    John 15:8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

    HankD
     
  12. Van

    Van
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    When plumbers comes to fix something at my house, they usually say the work done before was not good. I believed it the first and second time I heard it, but by the third, I realized it was a sort of sales pitch to bring them back because they know what they are doing.

    It seems theologians might engage in a similar practice, this guy or that guy (although a fine person) does not know what he or she is talking about. It is not a very deep observation that none of us understand scripture perfectly. We see as through a glass darkly. But on the other hand, scripture conveys what God wanted it to convey, and we are to study it, and present it without adding our own speculations, because speculation is the mother of false doctrine.
     
  13. DHK

    DHK
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    Malcom Muggeridge wasn't an apologist at all. His life was turbulent, immoral, and filled with a mixture of strange doctrines. In the end his life is portrayed like this:
    http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/002/607xdxhe.asp?page=3

    Not a description that brings much flattery to the person. The entire article is worth reading.
     
  14. agedman

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    I do not read other than for entertainment from any of those listed. Some may find that limiting my education, but frankly, I have little use for either their writing or choice of living.

    However, I would agree with them on one small rather insignificant area. The Apostle John knowing that "The Word became flesh..." states, "And there are also many other things which Jesus did, which if they were written in detail, I suppose that even the world itself would not contain the books that would be written."

    So, the Scriptures contain the "Word of God" and is kept accurately and complete as to what God has given to humankind. However, to assume that God had (has) no other words is a bit short sighted.

    God gave the Holy Spirit to the believer to speak to them. That same Spirit may speak not only through the primary source (the Word), but in many extra-biblical moments: a tear in the eye, the longing in a voice, the gentle cool of a breeze, though entertaining angels unaware... in which the believer is called to action.

    Certainly, God's word in the Scriptures should be the final authority, and all must be sifted through the principles and statements given in Scriptures.

    I would caution, that you are equating salvation with accepting Scripture with the same value you place upon that acceptance. That is just not accurate.

    There are those of the KJV only camp that are just as lost as those in the NIV camp, or even the NASB camp (though I don' t know how they could be :) )

    Even on the BB there are those who accept the Scriptures entirely, yet we consider a different view of the application. Does that mean those who disagree with my view are unbelievers? Perhaps, and perhaps not. I am in no place to make that determination. God knows who are his and who are not.


    Certainly, we all have our short comings. And those given much will be required more.

    That they will face rebuke for some reason does not in any way mitigate or even eliminate my own rebuke that is coming.

    We each will stand either before the judgment seat of Christ or the final judgment of God.
     
  15. Squire Robertsson

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    In contrast to the men cited above. I give you Cornelius Van Til and Francis Schaffer. These two brothers are unquestionably orthodox Christians though of a Presbyterian flavor.
     
  16. OldRegular

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    Tell you something "Georgia Boy". Based on what few remarks you have mede most on this BB are confused as to your goal. Give us some idea of what you believe regarding Scripture and the Church and perhaps we can be of assistance. I have an old brother {After the flesh and the Spirt!} who will be 88 on Nov. 30. He could help you out should you desire!
     
  17. Rippon

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    Should we call him OlderRegular? ;-)
     
  18. TCassidy

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    Wow. My eldest brother will only be 84! You are OLD! LOL! :D
     
  19. OldRegular

    OldRegular
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    Iffen you can duck fast!
     
  20. SovereignGrace

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