Some insurers: No coverage for kids

Discussion in 'News / Current Events' started by rbell, Jul 24, 2010.

  1. rbell

    rbell
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    11,103
    Likes Received:
    0
    So....is anyone surprised that Obama lied? You shouldn't be...his lips were moving.

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Some-insurers-stop-writing-apf-1129458619.html?x=0&.v=1

    Look...my take is this: this isn't an "unintended consequence," as the story purports.

    Obama, and his socialist minions, knew this would happen. The insurance companies can't make money under the new rules, without these steps. These steps will be deemed "unacceptable" by our Marxist-in-chief, and will lead to a complete government takeover of healthcare. He'll do so with great fanfare, and it will be "for the children."

    Many will back him. (of course, those who support him because of his skin color will do so...others, who regularly fall for the "for the children" line, as well as those who operate under the assumption, "Government is the answer....now what was the question?" will fall in line.)

    The question is...will there be enough opposition not to stop it (not possible), but to even slow it down? (Frankly, I doubt it seriously.)


    Stalin 2.0's plan is progressing as he expected.

    This hope & change will wreck our country yet. Starting with your healthcare.
     
  2. carpro

    carpro
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Messages:
    20,894
    Likes Received:
    294
    Moreover, they wanted and planned for it to happen.
     
  3. HankD

    HankD
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    15,118
    Likes Received:
    319
    November is 3 months and a few days away!

    HankD
     
  4. billwald

    billwald
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2000
    Messages:
    11,414
    Likes Received:
    0
    You think that insurance companies should be required to sell medical programs to children with congenital diseases for less than their projected cost?
     
  5. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,270
    Likes Received:
    777

    Well your hero obama said everyone would be covered.
     
  6. rbell

    rbell
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    11,103
    Likes Received:
    0
    Not the point

    The point is, companies were forced to do so by Josef Stalin Obama.

    And no...it's not a viable business model.

    Which leaves us with a few explaations:

    1. Obama knew it wouldn't work...but he wants the companies to deny coverage to kids...as a move of corporate self-preservation. That way, he can villify them, win over the converts of the ignorant, and pull the full-fledged government takeover he's been desparate to do anyway.

    2. Obama is stupid enough to believe companies should do what you mentioned above...at no cost to anyone. (Although I think his plans are much more malignant than this...Our president is so stunningly ignorant as to basic free-market principles and procedures, that I suppose it is possible. Remember....this yahoo has never held a real (e.g., private-sector

    3. Obama had no plan from the beginning. and this whole plan was just him winging it. So the lie was the first thing that popped into his marxist brain.

    Commonality in all possibiliities:

    Obama has no clue how business works.
    Obama has no problem lying to people.
     
  7. billwald

    billwald
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2000
    Messages:
    11,414
    Likes Received:
    0
    > Obama knew it wouldn't work...but he wants the companies to deny coverage to kids...as a move of corporate self-preservation.

    What do YOU want? Do YOU want insurance companies to be forced to issue policies or do YOU want the government health insurance? Or do YOU believe that defective kids should die? Or do YOU think the SBC and other real Christians should build facilities to take care of poor kids? How would YOU handle the problem? Did I forget an alternative?
     
  8. HankD

    HankD
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    15,118
    Likes Received:
    319
    Hi Bill, I'm a contract software architect/engineer by trade and have worked on insurance company software.

    In my career I have only worked for one company (I can't mention their name but they are on Mercer Island a few miles from you in Everett) that made any income from premiums.

    They make their money from investing their premium cash flow and annuities.

    However, the real point is: the administration promised us the moon but we got an asteroid aiming to crash on planet earth soon.

    HankD
     
  9. Martin

    Martin
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2005
    Messages:
    5,228
    Likes Received:
    0
    If people would just buy their own insurance like they are suppose to all of this would be a non-issue. There are affordable plans available for people who are willing to sacrifice a little of their "fun" money. The bottom line is this: People don't need cable tv, home internet, to eat out everyday, or own/rent fancy cars. However people do need health insurance. So what should they do? Eliminate the things they don't need so they can afford the things they do need. It is that simple. There was a time when people understood this basic principle. Now everyone wants big papa government to take care of them. Well if big papa government takes care of you, big papa government will make the rules.

    The issue here, for me at least, is not President Obama or socialism (etc). Those things are the symptoms of the cancer and not the cancer itself. The issue here is, the real cancer is, the American people who, in large numbers, seem to want big papa government to "give" them things. If that is what they want they will have it, but they need not whine when big papa government cuts corners or proves to be ineffective or out of touch with reality. Taking care of one's self, and one's own family, is far better than depending upon the modern Caesar.
     
    #9 Martin, Jul 24, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 24, 2010
  10. windcatcher

    windcatcher
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2007
    Messages:
    2,764
    Likes Received:
    0
    How do you propose that people do this whose net take home pay is about $1000/month? $2000/month?

    50 years ago.... A general physcian's earnings were closer to the incomes within the community.
    50 years ago there was less 'miracluous' technology and treatment and drugs to sustain life accoring to most people.... but if one had done a study on how often people utilized health care... I dare say it was far less than it is today.
    50 years ago ..... a day in the hospital cost less than $50.

    60 years ago.... nurses still wore caps, starched white uniforms, white stockings with seams and hung glass bottles of IV drips and many medications were formulated on site.... at the hospital pharmacy or by the apotecary drugist. Hospital rooms had lavatories built in each room.... where patients could observe the hand washing of all visitors to their room....doctors, nurses and aids... and even visitors, if they wished.

    I visit the doctor...... placed in an operatory for examination.... the sink is dry. He comes in..... makes no difference what the exam.... he dons gloves and that's it. If its a 'pelvic' then he might wash his hands after removing his gloves.... but for whose protection???????

    Prevention is health care. We used to get encouragement to eat a variety of all food groups and particularly the vegetables ......and the more colorful and the lower heat/less time in cooking the better. Text books on health used to contain information about the presence and importance of vitamins and minerals in food. Small farmers used to be able to maintain a herd on pasture with a little supplement through the winter.... and grow the beef that fed America. Many had fresh milk on the table without pasteurization or homogenation.... and did very well. We did! What happen? [Too many things....coming down largely from regulations and so-called farmers programs sold to the stupid populace 'to help the small farmer' but with conditions which favored the corporate competition and increased the difficulty of the small farmer to make a living.]

    The bottom line......... CONTROL and GREED.

    But the minions in government..... pulled by corporate dreams of grandeur.... are told and truly believe (i.e. they get their 'faith' at the public universities)..... We're over populated....... and that is the problem.

    Government used to function from the premise.... we had unbelievable natural resources (which belonged to the people, I might add) and the human potential for tapping it to serve our needs and prosper and plenty left over to help the needs of others. The Department of Health, Education, and Welfare.... used to function with higher standards to promote the health of the people by providing education on healthy living.

    About a year ago, we had a somewhat heated discussion on the fact that abortions contribute to the increased incident of breast cancer. Supposedly there was no confirming data...... and the INH and the ACS both denied any such connection for years. Respectful institutions are they? Or are they tools of political correctness and greed in the health care industry? Then about days or weeks later, an expose come out that this data and studies had been going on and accumulating..... and some who were familiar with its significance had participated on a panel in one of the above institutions (if memory is correct) in which decisions were made to suppress or disregard. .......Data going back for years.

    Doctors can't compete if involved in preventive services because it takes more time with the patient... and more lab studies and time for individual analysis beyond the lab report.... and insurance and government programs require diagnosis for billing.... not preventive analysis.
    Doctors can't do prevention because little is taught to them in school because this will not be the focus in practice.... and few pursue this on their own.... it doesn't pay back the debts of tuition and the cost of setting up practice.
    Doctors can't compete because the sick care industry syphons off the profits... its buy liability insurance at what they say is their price or risk bankruptcy and pay attorneys..... the pharmaceuticals companies tell the public what drug is good for them and even suggest symptoms in their advertising...... [promotional hypochondria????] 'teach' doctors how the latest is the bestest, and cover up adverse side effects and don't do long term studies:

    Most drugs are release with statements like the action is not known but 'it is generally believed ..... and then goes on to say what pathways and systems 'generally believed' taking place in interaction. ..... This is our modern day science....... coming to you as 'generally believed'...... the same science from the scientific establishment that attacks 'intelligence' and 'creation' from theories of origin ...removes God from the class room and challenges the faith of immature children and young adolescents.

    Bottom line.... health care cost used to be contained within reason until insurance paved the way to 'more affordable', safety for 'catastophic', and more universally availability provided by employers competeing with government and union benefits... which built the market from demand to a necessity... The advent of the third party payor.... became a wedge between the human elements of communication, compassion, and understanding which were part (not all) of the considerations which took place between the doctor and his patient. Standardization of cost took place.... and competition for fees from the patient.... became a less emotionally committed struggle for what insurance was willing to pay....how deep are 'their' pockets.

    Now patients, doctors, and insurance companies..... are strapped by regulations and corporate run hospitals and the industry of technology and pharmaceuticals are the profiteers. (This doesn't mean that hospitals aren't hurting for cash...now.)

    Health care is a misnomer..... It should be called Sick care..... and the insurance industry bears a portion of the blame.... during the very time it was increasing its custormer base.... it was attempting to regulate restrictions on what it was required to cover.... and investing its profits in corporate America...which built the phamaceutical industry (the very industry which has the research capacity at its disposal to figure out causes and cures of disease, or supply sustain and maintenance.... or even ignore the long term pathological which escape short term observation and trials.... and design additional 'treatments' for the future sequlae produced.

    Considering the mercurial state of human nature... to choose between good and evil.... to be selfless and giving or selfish and possessive.... to choose life or choose death...... it is a great concern to put the lives of the people of any nation into the care of a few.... whose morality and disposition we cannot control..... and give them such power over our lives that it is they who have the power over life and death decisions through their absolute control of the necessities of life. If this sounds alarmist..... it should be and with good reason.... Reason out: What do 'you' know about the necessities of life? How much is already under 'their' control.... and how much are 'they' planning to increase their control for the future?....... Remember, control means power and rule and property. Governments and corporations aren't humans....capable of morals or conscience...... a human condition and choice. Food, water, air, shelter.... how much of these essentials are already regulated beyond our reach of control... and how much or little do we still possess and manage free of intrusion by regulations?
     
    #10 windcatcher, Jul 26, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 26, 2010
  11. Bob Alkire

    Bob Alkire
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2001
    Messages:
    3,134
    Likes Received:
    0
    My friend, you need to get into the real world. So many folks are geared to having others taking care of them, a problem of our education system. I've been self employed or pastoring a church most of my life. I've had to buy my own coverage. To get an equal plan as the county workers have, it would cost me around 1,800.00 to 2,000.00 a month for family and self.

    But you are correct there is a way. About 20 years ago, I got a line of credit and purchased insurance with a large deductible and then catastrophic coverage. It took about 10 years but I put a large amount in the bank to cover the deductible and lost wadges. Also I work out a cost with the doctors as I would buying a car or a house before the deal.
    Most doctors will give you the same cost or near the cost that they are paid by the insurance companies. But you are correct, there is a way, but one might have to do a little planning and work.
     
    #11 Bob Alkire, Jul 26, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 26, 2010
  12. rbell

    rbell
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    11,103
    Likes Received:
    0

    I love how you take a complex and difficult issue, and boil it down to a couple of oversimplified talking points (with an unneccessary insult or two thrown in).

    On the hierarchy of "solutions," government forcing business to fail so that government could take over is at the bottom of my preferences.

    Actually, it's near the bottom. Putting you in charge of it would be at the bottom.
     
  13. HankD

    HankD
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    15,118
    Likes Received:
    319
    The writings of Ezekiel Emanual, the administration's medical advisor and brother of Rahm show a cold and logical solution to healthcare costs.

    Selectively choose who will receive the best health care.

    In spite of all the denials that is just what it is and will prove to be if we let the largely unread healthcare bill follow it's natural course.

    The least likely to receive the best care: The young, especially those who have no education investment and are of less "social value".

    The elderly, especially those who are at "end-of-life" who, even if they survive are unlikely to contribute anything but conversley drain the system.

    The most likely: 30-50 year olds who are progressively prioritized with the criteria of a) likeliness to survive, b) potential contribition to society, c) a promising post procedural survival (e.g. open-heart surgery) longevity.

    Granted it's logical, it's scientific in it's statistics, but it's cold and without compassion.

    Do a google on "ezekiel emanual eugenics".

    HankD
     
  14. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,270
    Likes Received:
    777
    yea he is pure evil
     
  15. billwald

    billwald
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2000
    Messages:
    11,414
    Likes Received:
    0
    >They make their money from investing their premium cash flow and annuities.

    Not exactly. This is how they generate income to pay off investors. Under insurance principles, the premiums are supposed to cover the claims and administrative costs. In theory, a mutual company that is large enough and perfectly run should break even every year. But insurance laws require that they have enough reserve to pay off claims in atypical years.

    No "insurance" company would volunteer to issue a policy for a preexisting condition. One can only buy fire insurance before the fire starts.
     
  16. HankD

    HankD
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    15,118
    Likes Received:
    319
  17. Martin

    Martin
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2005
    Messages:
    5,228
    Likes Received:
    0
    In the recent past I have purchased insurance for myself and have only paid a little over $200.00 a month. The coverage was with Blue Cross & Blue Shield and it covers everything. They have family programs as well.
     
  18. Bob Alkire

    Bob Alkire
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2001
    Messages:
    3,134
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have not been able to do that without a large deductible and no help at doctors office on office visits.

    What I was putting it up against is the same coverage that the county workers get would be that high. Lesser coverage cost less, as coverage goes down so does cost. Maybe I need to move to where you live because with my high deductible and no pay at doctors office I'm paying near the 200 you are talking about for myself, wife and a 15 year old. My coverage is hospital coverage only.
     
  19. Bob Alkire

    Bob Alkire
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2001
    Messages:
    3,134
    Likes Received:
    0
    Martin, My wife said I didn't tell you the truth on this, it is hospital, in or out patient and prescription drugs, which is a co pay. This is for a family of three. And I'm sure I'm older than you so I would pay more.

    By the way I have some friends down here who drive for a firm out of Winston Salem, NC and their coverage is about 90 percent of our county workers and they are paying $125.00 a week for their part of a family plan. Their plan suppose to be a 11 or 12 thousand dollar a year plan.
     
  20. rbell

    rbell
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    11,103
    Likes Received:
    0
    You've made my point. Obama is forcing the companies to do something that essentially guarantees failure. Why? He wants them to fail. That allows him to set up the "single-payer system" to "rescue" us.
     

Share This Page

Loading...