Some Standing Here

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by HisWitness, Jan 27, 2013.

  1. HisWitness

    HisWitness
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    Matthew 16-28:Verily i say unto you,There be some standing here,which shall not taste of death,till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

    Now dont do as the Heading above the verse and say its the Transfiguration,because in verse 27 he is plainly talking to them about coming with his angels and rewarding every man according to their works.
    Also the Transfiguration was just in a few days from that time.
    So this has no other meaning than SOME of the disciples being alive at his coming(we call rapture).OR if that is not what it meant,then some are still alive today!!!

    Matthew 26-64:Jesus saith unto him(high priest from verse 63),Thou hast said:nevertheless I say unto YOU(High Priest),Hereafter shall YE see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power,and COMING IN THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN(what we call rapture).

    this was just another verse to prove likewise--Jesus said the High priest would be alive and see him coming in the clouds of heaven.
    So you have 2 verses here speaking to 2 different peoples involved that would be alive at his coming.

    Now put matthew 24 and ALL THINGS BEING FULLFILLED before that generation passed away--and you have solid proof of his coming in their day and time(AD 70)

    I think its enough proof just in those 2 verses and matthew 24--but there are alot of other scriptures which prove this same thing.
    So how can you say that it is still to come and its been over 2k years and counting--are those people still alive???????????
     
  2. John of Japan

    John of Japan
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    What a very strange way to start a debate, saying, "You are not allowed to interpret this verse any other way than the way I do!" If you don't mind, I'll just lurk here for awhile and see if this approach works for you. :type:
     
  3. Gregory Perry Sr.

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    Good one John...

    :laugh:That's a good one bro.John...think I'll lurk here with ya! Me thinks a preterist hath invaded the henhouse!!! These guys are nothing if not entertaining. I don't have that good of an imagination.:laugh:

    Bro.Greg
     
  4. John of Japan

    John of Japan
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    Imagination is not necessarily a good thing in Biblical hermeneutics. :smilewinkgrin:
     
  5. asterisktom

    asterisktom
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    :thumbs::thumbs:

    Yes, this was one of the basic passages ( one of several) that finally moved me over to taking Preterism more seriously. I used to also be a nay-sayer - as proven by the ABC Bible archives of ten years ago - but the persistent witnessing of courteous Preterists finally had a good effect.
     
  6. Baptist Believer

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    This is really very simple to understand without demanding that Jesus returned in 70 A.D. or claiming it is referring to the Transfiguration. (FWIW, I agree, it is not referring to the Transfiguration.)

    --
    John 8:51-59 (NASB)
    Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he will never see death.” The Jews said to Him, “Now we know that You have a demon. Abraham died, and the prophets also; and You say, ‘If anyone keeps My word, he will never taste of death.’ Surely You are not greater than our father Abraham, who died? The prophets died too; whom do You make Yourself out to be?” Jesus answered, “If I glorify Myself, My glory is nothing; it is My Father who glorifies Me, of whom you say, ‘He is our God’; and you have not come to know Him, but I know Him; and if I say that I do not know Him, I will be a liar like you, but I do know Him and keep His word. Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.” So the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?” Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.” Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him, but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple.


    John 11:25-26 (NASB)
    Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?”


    1 Timothy 1:8-10 (NASB)
    Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord or of me His prisoner, but join with me in suffering for the gospel according to the power of God, who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity, but now has been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel.


    2 Corinthians 5:1-10
    For we know that if the earthly tent which is our house is torn down, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For indeed in this house we groan, longing to be clothed with our dwelling from heaven, inasmuch as we, having put it on, will not be found naked. For indeed while we are in this tent, we groan, being burdened, because we do not want to be unclothed but to be clothed, so that what is mortal will be swallowed up by life. Now He who prepared us for this very purpose is God, who gave to us the Spirit as a pledge.

    Therefore, being always of good courage, and knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord— for we walk by faith, not by sight— we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord. Therefore we also have as our ambition, whether at home or absent, to be pleasing to Him. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.



    Hebrews 12:1
    Therefore, since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also lay aside every encumbrance and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us…

    --
    Those who are God's people will never taste death, although their physical body may die. Those who are with the Lord are conscious and aware of God and what is going on in human affairs (the great cloud of witnesses).

    I will never taste death because of Christ, just as some who heard Jesus speak those words that day have not, and will not, taste death. This is not an obscure teaching in the scriptures, although it is relatively unknown coming from the pulpits these days.
     
  7. thomas15

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    In order to get the preterist view of Matthew ch 16, many of the 100s of details of the return of Jesus have to be either ignored or explained in a way that makes them meaningless. Also, the preterist should, if they have Biblical truth on their side, should be willing to offer an explanation as to why the second coming was missed by like everyone on the planet for almost 2000 years.

    If the AD70 burning of the temple was the return of Christ, then why didn't Jehovah destroy the Romans as prediced in Zechariah ch 12? And since this passage refers to nations(s) why wasn't the AD70 war a multi-national war?

    Does the Bible teach that when Jesus returns, will he have any army of saints with him to do battle or will he use a heathen (Roman) army?
     
  8. thomas15

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    .................
     
    #8 thomas15, Jan 28, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 28, 2013
  9. MB

    MB
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    His witness;
    I would imagine that there could be a lot of reasons why preterism is not true. One is that those people are still alive.LOL (Just Kidding) The other is the Bible has many mysteries in it and there isn't anyone here including my self that understands everything it says after all we are looking through a dark glass. Although just because there are mysteries in the Bible doesn't mean we should go off on a wild goose chase as if we can figure it out our selves. Preterism is just plain wrong because I haven't seen any of the prophecies mentioned by Christ that have came true that were suppose to come true before His second coming.

    Tell me the when of and show me what happened with all those prophecies that Christ told in Mat; 24. Truthfully if you can't do that then you're just blowing hot air.
    MB
     
  10. HisWitness

    HisWitness
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    The scripture in Matthew 16 says plainly SOME of the disciples would be alive when Jesus came back again.

    And you failed to quote on the other text that is also plainly about the High Priest SEEING Jesus coming in the CLOUDS of heaven.
     
  11. HisWitness

    HisWitness
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    Dark Glass????

    Its very plain written from the Lord's own mouth that the High Priest would see Jesus coming back in the clouds of heaven--but the traditions of men make them water a scripture like this down and to mold it into their traditional views--what a shame!!!
     
  12. HisWitness

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    Insread of changing the subject--why dont you just stick with the 2 verses that the Lord said with his own mouth and realize exactly what he said ?

    Then itll be easier to see where all the other scriptures fall in line :)
     
  13. HisWitness

    HisWitness
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    Hermeneutics???

    When jesus told the High priest he would see him coming back in the clouds of heaven--why dont you deal with the scripture--its very literal and plain :)
     
  14. Baptist Believer

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    Right.

    Are you assuming that all of His disciples were true believers? Remember, the term disciples doesn't just refer to the 12 most prominent disciples, but the much larger number of people who followed Jesus, both men and women.

    Even if you restricted it to the 12, Judas Iscariot was not necessarily redeemed.

    The claim that those who are in Christ will never die still stands... Jesus made it clear in several contexts and Paul affirms it as a belief of the early church.

    I'm very sorry it undermines the evidence for your position.

    I didn't quote Matthew 26 at all, so I didn't "fail to quote" anything unless you expect me to quote the entire canon of scripture every time I post.

    But since you raised the issue, you need to consider that even the wicked will be resurrected on the final day of judgement, so it does not necessarily support the return of Jesus at the destruction of Jerusalem.

    Please deal with the issues instead of trying to win an argument.
     
  15. HisWitness

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    BB you are not even getting what the scripture is saying--i know that all so called disciples were not all truely disciples(only those who continue in his word are true)the fact is that Some of the disciples who he was talking too at that present day would not die bodily and would be alive bodily when jesus came again--that is what jesus was saying :)
     
  16. Baptist Believer

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    And you've reached this conclusion how?

    We agree there...

    Where does it specify that they would not die bodily?
     
  17. HisWitness

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    SOME STANDING HERE(with jesus at that time) WOULD NOT taste death(bodily death)--they would remain alive(bodily) and witness(see) the coming of the Son of man(we call rapture) its very plain :)

    and the High Priest of that day would see jesus coming in the clouds of heaven(what we call rapture) just as plain as the other :)
     
  18. Baptist Believer

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    I see you have added "bodily death" to the scripture. Why must I agree with your interpretation/addition to scripture?

    I see you are trying to fit everything into a pet theology. Sorry, I don't play that game. I have no end times agenda to defend.

    If you're going to add to scripture, I'm not going to participate in this conversation.
     
  19. thomas15

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    The whole preterist concept is built on the idea referred to as Covenant Theology which sees the Bible in terms of two or three covenants (works, grace and redemption). Covenant theology is the back bone of preterism. Since covenant theology is not a concept that the Bible teaches, the preterist argument is moot.
     
  20. HisWitness

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    ok lets just deal with the High priest of that day seeing jesus when he came on the clouds of heaven--what will you say about this one ??

    no matter what you say death is there--its evident that some of the disciples that were standing with jesus would see his return in their lifetime.
     

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