Some thoughts on O. T. Scriptures

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by rlvaughn, Feb 16, 2003.

  1. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn
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    Baptists have some varying positions on the use of the Old Testament scriptures, their relation to us today, salvation under the Old Testament, etc. Though the use of the word "scriptures" by the apostles & prophets may be sometimes in a general sense that the encompasses the N. T. canon, when there is a specific historical reference in the N. T. era to the use of the "scriptures," that reference is evidently to the Old Testament. Here are a few thoughts I have.

    The gospel that Paul preached was according to the Old Testament scriptures - I Corinthians 15:1-4.

    Philip preached Jesus to the eunuch using the Old Testament scriptures in Isaiah - Acts 8:35.

    Paul demonstrated from the Old Testament scriptures that Jesus was the Christ - Acts 17:1-4.

    Many Bereans believed as a result of searching the Old Testament scriptures - Acts 17:10-12.

    Apollos convinced Jews in Achaia that Jesus was the Christ using the Old Testament scriptures - Acts 18:28.

    The Old Testament scriptures testify of Christ - John 5:29.

    The Old Testament scriptures are able to make one wise unto salvation - II Timothy 3:15.

    The Old Testament scriptures teach salvation by grace through faith - Romans 4:3; 10:8-11; Galatians 3:8,22; I Peter 2:6.
     
  2. Daniel Dunivan

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    It is interesting that one of the earliest heresies, gnosticism, deemed the OT and its god as an disjunctive from the revelation found in Jesus Christ. We take the two testaments together as describing the same thing (as do these texts in the NT you cited); however, to think that this has always been self-evident is quite inaccurate. The struggle with what to do with the OT was a difficult thing for the early Christian community.

    Grace and Peace, Danny [​IMG]
     
  3. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn
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    I would add that there is still a struggle about what to do with the Old Testament, and a wide range of conclusions among Christians. The question of what to do with the Law alone has caused irreconcilable division among Baptists that otherwise believe the same things.
     
  4. Clint Kritzer

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    The Book of Hebrews deals almost exclusively with the obsolescense of the Law, or more specifically, the Scriptures passed down by Moses. However, the same Book also points to the fact that the Old Testament Scriptures were all pointing to the coming of Christ.

    Ironically, the word "testament" comes to us via the Latin for "covenant". Jeremiah 31:31-34 is the single longest quoted Passage in the New Testament (Hebrews 8:8-12 & 10:16-17). What we call the "New Testament" merely designates the part of the Biblical canon that is distinctly Christian.

    Paul told Timothy that the faith he had learned from his Jewish grandmother and mother, who were certainly trained in OT Scripture, would help him "fan into flame" the gift of God (2Timothy 1:5-6).

    I am one of those Baptist who holds a great deal of reverence and respect for the Old Testament. The fact that it was the documentation with which Christ was trained speaks a great deal about them. To my thinking there is far too much information about the Nature of God and His dealing with mankind contained in the text to ignore.
     
  5. wingtrap

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    Jesus says:
    Matt.5:17 Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or Prophets.Idid not come to destroy but to fulfill.
    Anything in the New Testament is a fulfillment or a proclamation of the Old Testament. [​IMG]
     
  6. Daniel David

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    That is not completely true. Paul said that the church was a mystery that was not revealed until the present time. Prophets of old never saw it. They never imagined a time when Jew and Gentile would be one in Christ.
     
  7. Clint Kritzer

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    Not necessarily, Preach.

    The ESV, NASB, and others translate "Gentiles" as "the nations" but the intent is still probably referring to those who were not Jews. The passage is translated such in KJV and NIV. Consider also Isaiah 11:10 and Jeremiah 3:17.

     
  8. Clint Kritzer

    Clint Kritzer
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    A further thought on my last post:

     
  9. Daniel David

    Daniel David
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    I do not mean that salvation would not come to the Gentiles or "nations" the way that it did.

    Eph. 3 and Col. 1 each state that the body of Christ was a mystery to the prophets before. It had been revealed to the Apostles.
     
  10. Jim1999

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    The Old Testament is just the beginnings of religion. We find in the Old an evolution of religious thought and not the whole; it is progressive, and the people learned a little at a time.

    There are many passages, particularly in Isaiah where the concept of a Messiah is concealed, but do we know this because of the New Testament?

    The Jews, even in Jesus' time were still looking for a military victory and hence the confusion over the crucifixion. I think that doubting went far beyond Thomas.

    Back to the Old Testament. There were things done by the Jews that were not of God, and that includes some of the laws they made. Often people confuse the various laws in the Old and try to carry portion of them into the New. There are times when Old Testament characters attribute to God that which is not of God and we must sort this all out by our overall knowledge of what the Book is saying.

    Writing on the run, so must shove off....

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  11. rufus

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    Without the O.T. I would have 39 less books of the Bible to preach from.

    rufus :D
     
  12. Dan Todd

    Dan Todd
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    The Bible - (all 66 books) - is the Word of God.

    You cannot understand the New Testament without the Old Testament.

    You cannot understand the Old Testament without the New Testament.

    In my 33+ years in the ministry - I've preached through Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, 2/3 of the Psalms, Ecclesiastes, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Lamentations, Exekiel, Daniel, John, Romans (going through it the second time) and Revelation, and most of the small books. There are probably more books that I've preached in or through - but my memory is failing me at the present.

    How important is the O.T. - Ken Ham says that all the foundational doctrines of the Bible have their basis in Genesis 1-11.

    Without - In the beginning, God ... - you have absolutly nothing.

    God Bless [​IMG]

    PS - I wish this site had spell check :D
     
  13. Helen

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    A few points:

    RL, you missed a couple:

    Matthew used the OT as evidence that the prophecies had been fulfilled in Christ; his entire gospel is a testimony to the testimony of the Old Testament.

    Hebrews 4:2 -- For we also have had the gospel preached to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because those who heard did not combine it with faith. -- speaking of those Moses was leading through the wilderness.

    Regarding Jim's post, I don't think the OT is the beginning of religion. I think we see it full-fledged before the Flood as Hebrews 11 lists the men of faith beginning with Seth. However with the advent of the Hebrew people, God is revealing Himself 'layer by layer' to the world through them (and to them).

    To Dan: write your post on a Word file first and check the spelling that way then just cut and paste it.

    [ March 16, 2003, 01:14 AM: Message edited by: Helen ]
     
  14. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn
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    Thanks especially for pointing out Heb. 4:2, for it makes a very simple straightforward addition to the list.
     

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