Soul Searching About John Calvin and Paul Washer

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by saturneptune, Feb 2, 2014.

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  1. saturneptune

    saturneptune
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    This thread will probably result in some "I told you so" or "I was right all the time" responses, but this is something that needs to be said. The Lord has taken me through the ringer over the last several days over my posts on this board. I believe Paul calls it self examination

    I grew up as a PCA Presbyterian, and have strong beliefs in doctrines of grace and sovereignty. The two personal encounters with Paul Washer really did happen, and it is still true there is much about John Calvin's life I do not care for. However that is not the point. To a degree it left a dislike in myself for both men. The truth is, both men have/had a lot to contribute to the work of the Lord. There is no telling how many people came to Christ through the works of both. There is a positive aspect to everyone's spiritual gifts.

    On the negative side, no, I did not like the words of and the congregation's reaction to Paul Washer. I did not care for lots of John Calvin's beliefs and the way he governed. On the positive side, Paul Washer's ministry pierces a lot of souls and wakes up a lot of people pretending to be Christian, while Calvin contributed an amazing amount of understanding of doctrine about the sovereignty of God.

    Basically, and this is the hard part, I used the records of these two men in this ongoing back and forth (which is now over) as a way to push buttons. I was wrong to do. Despite my genuine dislike of certain aspects of each man, the Christ like thing to have done would have been to say nothing about them, as it harmed what good both men did/are doing.

    This thought process over the last few days also gives me a much better appreciation of moderators and administrators. I know, for example, that Dr. Bob thinks highly of Calvin, and maybe Paul Washer, (not sure about that), yet, when he reads posts like the ones that bashed Calvin, since they do not break the rules, had to swallow his anger to be fair and impartial. That goes for DHK probably in different areas. It takes a special person to be able to read exactly what one is against since you all are the ones that have to make judgments.

    Being a moderator/administrator must be like the guys on Pawn Stars, you never know what is coming next. A good recent example is the guy that denied the deity of Christ that dressed up like a monk and posted in Baptist only sections.
     
  2. Zaac

    Zaac
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    :thumbsup: :1_grouphug: The essence of growing in our relationship with Christ.
     
  3. Jkdbuck76

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    PW has some "strong medicine" for ppl. That's for sure. I'm trying to read "Institutes", but never had the time until now (I'm the lucky winner of 4 months of chemotherapy). So I'm going to use this down time as a chance to grow.
     
  4. salzer mtn

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    If Calvin did in fact have a man killed he and David have something in common.
     
  5. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    Told ya so...ROFL!:tonofbricks:
     
  6. HankD

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    Im praying for your healing JKD and the lessons thereof, though I haven't had to go through chemo, both my parents did.

    HankD
     
  7. JohnDeereFan

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    For the record, I never said you lied about what Washer said to your church. I pointed out that you lied shamelessly about Washer's character.

    Here are a couple of your best character assassinations from the Paul Washer thread:

    And that's just from the first couple of pages. I could post much more, including where you then turned your insults on me.

    Why blame Washer for your church's reaction to him?

    And why would that cause you to slander him?

    Let's just say that has not been my experience.
     
    #7 JohnDeereFan, Feb 2, 2014
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  8. Rippon

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    Try reading some of his sermons,commentaries or even letters before reading the Institutes. You may find the latter a hard slog. His sermons especially can minister to your soul.
     
  9. Rippon

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    By "lots" do you mean the majority? I hope you don't mean that. Every regenerate individual would agree with the majority of John Calvin's beliefs because they line up with biblical truth --Yes,even the most extreme independent Baptist.

    But he did not govern. He was governed. The Libertines were in the majority for most of his time in Geneva --all the way to 1555.

    And it was really hard for Calvin to govern when he was kicked out of Geneva by the City Council.
    His ministry went way beyond that emphasis. He preached the full counsel of the Word of God.

    You broke the rules many times. That's why a number of your posts were clipped. But far more should have been removed.

    Just stay away from comments like:thug,liar,false witness,lost,pure essence of evil (you have called me that,as well as PW and John Calvin),fraud etc.

    And your single most egregious line was :"Truly John Calvin is burning in Hell for his heresy,blasphemy of God and murder of many."
     
  10. JohnDeereFan

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    Do you really think he's ever read Calvin or even has a clue about Calvin?

    Same here. As I showed above, he even called a brother in Christ a "piece of garbage".

    Nice guy, that Saturn Neptune. Makes me wonder about the people who defend him and his posts.
     
  11. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    Read some of Calvin's 'Golden Books' :thumbsup:

    Short & sweet. Just displays the mans willingness to reach out to people on various levels.
     
  12. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    Wonder all you want.......we are all human. We are all sinners and we are all prone to err so again pull the plank outa your own eye.
     
  13. Van

    Van
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    Hi S/N, I did not read nor look for your comments on John Calvin and Paul Washer. But I fear both are "calvinistic" and therefore mistaken on some points of Biblical doctrine. But, other than an inspired speaker or writer of the New Testament, who is not mistaken on some points of Biblical doctrine?

    Easy Believeism is a mistaken view of salvation. Washer is correct there is nowhere in the Bible that teaches if we ask, Jesus will definitely come in. He knows our heart, and if our appeal to God is not whole-hearted, He will not credit our half baked faith as righteousness.

    Thus the Apostle Paul says we must examine ourselves to see if we are of the faith. I believe, if we are born anew, we will find evidence of the fruit of the Spirit at the core of our heart. And we will be wretched and remorseful concerning the lawlessness we find in our thoughts and actions.
     
  14. Berean

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    I believe Sat'Nep is repenting and asking forgiveness, let's rejoice with him and examine ourselves.
     
  15. JohnDeereFan

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    I look forward to seeing him do that.

    Two problems, though.

    The first is that the last time he apologized, he didn't even miss a beat before he went right back to hurling insults and personal attacks.

    I'd be happy to show them to you, if you like.

    So even if you're right and that's what he's doing, his past behavior gives me no reason to believe it's not just a ploy for sympathy before he goes back to insulting those of us who have to correct him.

    The second problem is that nowhere in his post did he acknowledge what he did, that he was wrong, or asked for forgiveness.
     
    #15 JohnDeereFan, Feb 2, 2014
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  16. saturneptune

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    I want to thank everyone for their kind words except the last two posters which is exactly what I expected. These are my true feelings as the Lord has lead. Because you, John Deere Fan, and you Rippon have chosen to give demeaning, arrogant, unChristlike responses, your true character shines. From this moment forward, do not bother me, neither to my threads or posts. If I see a demeaning one, I will report it directly to Dr. Bob until he does something, which he has assured me he will. I have never in my life seen two more unforgiving, hateful people. All I can tell you is to leave me alone.

    Moderators, please close this thread.
     
  17. InTheLight

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    To the people that won't forgive SN, here is a couple of verses for you :

    Matthew 18:34-35 NIV
    In anger his master handed him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed. “This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother or sister from your heart.”
     
  18. JohnDeereFan

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    I guess you weren't sincere when you said you were going to put me on ignore.

    Reported and noted that this comes after an alleged "apology".

    And I will report you for insults and personal attacks. I guess we'll see how consistent the moderators are, huh?

    Well, so much for your "apology".
     
    #18 JohnDeereFan, Feb 2, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 2, 2014
  19. JohnDeereFan

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    Two problems here. The first is, how are we to forgive him when he won't even acknowledge that he's done anything wrong?

    Second, How are we to forgive him when he has no intention of stopping the behavior he keeps allegedly "apologizing" for?

    Does he want forgiveness? And if so, what is the point of forgiveness when he doesn't see anything wrong with his behavior, but insists on repeating it?
     
  20. Jkdbuck76

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    Pls get along, for the sake of our Lord and each other and yourselves. I'm serious. Please.
     
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