Sound Words

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by Rufus_1611, May 14, 2007.

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  1. Rufus_1611

    Rufus_1611
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    "Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus." - 2 Timothy 1:13

    What does the above verse mean?

    When reading the Holy Bible, should we discern the words written in that Bible using today's definitions or using the definitions contained within the Bible or at least within a dictionary authored closest to the authorship of the Bible?

    If a word such as "gay" means something in one Bible but the word changes meaning in the world should we create a new Bible to have the appropriate meaning or just leave the word out altogether, since the world now considers it to mean something else?

    How about a word like "marriage"? If "marriage" once met a union between one man and one woman and today means a union between a man and a man or a woman and a woman or in the future could mean even more detestable things such as a polygamous union or a union between a man and a beast, do we again need to create a new Bible with a new word which means only the union between a man and a woman?

    What if it is for less controversial words? If words change meanings with the passing years, should we keep issuing new Bibles whenever the meaning of a word contained in the previous Bible changes?
     
  2. Keith M

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    The original autographs were written in language that was easily understood by readers. God did not intend His message to be obscured by words with unclear meanings. Therefore, as language changes it is our job as Christians to keep God's message to mankind as fresh and as meaningful as possible. If we don't do this we become a hindrance to God because His message becomes clouded by the changing language. If we never updated as language changes and as the message is spread from one language to another we would all have to learn the original Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic. Simply, yes, the words of the Bible do need to change when the meanings of those words change or else confusion is created. God is not the author of confusion.
     
  3. robycop3

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    OF COURSE we should have God's word in OUR language. In English, that's the way it's been since God first caused His word to appear in it. Here's John 3;16 from Tyndale's Bible: "For God so loveth the worlde, that he hath geven his only sonne, that none that beleve in him, shuld perisshe: but shuld have everlastinge lyfe."

    Modernize the spelling, skip the face that 'begotten' isn't there,and we still have a lotta differences in the words between Tyndale and the AV. However, Tyndale's version reflected the English in use in his day.

    What if God hadn't kept His word in the current tongue throughout the centuries? Here's what we woulda had for John 3:16 as it first appeared in written English C. 1000AD: “God lufode middan-eard swa, dat he seade his an-cennedan sunu, dat nan ne forweorde de on hine gely ac habbe dat ece lif."

    Contrary to the belief of some, God didn't retire in 1611; He goes right on bringing us His word in OUR language, the language HE has chosen for us.
     
  4. Rufus_1611

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    What does the verse mean then?
     
  5. Rufus_1611

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    What does 2 Timothy 1:13 mean?
     
  6. underscoretim

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    and just think of the people in other countries who are not able to read the Olde English...
    If only they knew English, or old english rather...then they could receive the "true" gospel...

    please.
     
  7. Rufus_1611

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    What does 2 Timothy 1:13 mean?
     
  8. Ed Edwards

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    Rufus_1611:
    This used to be done in the KJVs:

    1 Timothy 2:9 (KJV1611 Edition)

    In like maner also, that women adorne
    themselues in modest apparell,
    with shamefastnesse and sobrietie,
    not with broided haire, or gold,
    or pearles, or costly aray,

    1 Timothy 2:9 (The King James Version
    [Authorized, KJV1769 Edition] )

    In like manner also, that women adorn
    themselves in modest apparel,
    with shamefacedness and sobriety;
    not with braided hair, or gold,
    or pearls, or costly array;


    Entry from Webster's 1828 dictionary at:

    http://65.66.134.201/cgi-bin/webster/webster.exe?search_for_texts_web1828=shamefacedness

    SHA'MEFACEDNESS, n. Bashfulness; excess of modesty.

    (no entry for 'shamefastnesse')
     
  9. underscoretim

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    It means:
    Timothy, follow my words, my teaching, the teaching you have heard from me.
    In faith and Love which is Christ Jesus.

    I'm not sure how it can be explained any other way.
     
  10. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    My whole problem with this approach is this. Why apply this only to 1611? Why not go back further in English and maintain those "sound words"? Why are the 1611 "sound words" the only ones that are "sound"?

    The verse means just what one poster above said - T"Timothy, take heed to what i am saying>"
     
  11. Rufus_1611

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    This isn't necessarily a 1611 discussion.

    There must be a baseline somewhere no? There was a time when the English language was in its infancy, a time when it peaked and a time in which it degraded. Setting Bibles aside, here is the word "gay" according to extrabiblical sources:

    If "gay" meant something 100, 200, 300 or 400 years ago, why should we change it to mean something else now? What happens when they change a word like "holy or "saviour" or "repentance"? Are there some words we will hold fast to and some which we will not?
     
  12. underscoretim

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    how does any of this apply to 2 Tim 1:13?
    i don't see the connection
     
  13. Rufus_1611

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    Well, we have different definitions of what the verse means so it is natural that you would not see a connection. I think the verse means that we "should hold fast the form of sound words". Meaning there is a form or pattern or meaning to sound or good words and we should hold fast to that. Thus, the word "gay" is a sound word that means jovial, merry etc. and we should hold fast to that form or meaning. When the devil comes and tries to take that word and apply it to the activities of reprobates, we should reject that meaning. The same standard should be held to any sound word.
     
  14. Keith M

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    If that is the case, Rufus, then we all need to go back to school and learn to read and write in Anglo-Saxon or an even earlier language. Otherwise we are not following your belief.
     
  15. Rufus_1611

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    My belief is that the English speaking peoples should learn to read, write and speak in English.
     
    #15 Rufus_1611, May 14, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: May 14, 2007
  16. Mexdeaf

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    'Sound words' means 'words that are true in doctrine'.

    Sound words are sound words whether they be in KJV1611, 1863, NKJV, NIV, ESV, Spanish, German, Scottish or Swahili.

    You are building mountains out of molehills and doctrine on one solitary verse which is not wise.
     
  17. Rufus_1611

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    This is not intended to be a KJV debate.
     
  18. Ed Edwards

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    2 Timothy 1:13 (Geneva Bible 1587 Edition):
    Keepe the true paterne of the wholesome wordes,
    which thou hast heard of me
    in faith and loue which is in Christ Iesus.

    2 Timothy 1:13 (KJV1611 Edition):
    Holde fast the fourme of sound words,
    which thou hast heard of mee,
    in faith and loue, which is in Christ Iesus.

    2 Timothy 1:13 (HCSB = Christian Standard Bible /Holman, 2003/ )
    [FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Hold on to the pattern of sound teaching
    that you have heard from me,
    in the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus.

    The physical words are baskets that carry
    the virtual and spiritual teachine, doctrine, and meaning in them.
    The words are not inerrant, God's Truth is inerrant.
    The words are not sacred & holy,
    God's Truth is sacred & holy.

    Don't make me describe how 'physical word' worship
    is Pagan and illogical astrological divination ;)

    [/FONT]
     
  19. underscoretim

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    well....when your OP is about changing words and you have 1611 in your username...
     
  20. Deacon

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    Really poetic Ed!
    Quite inspiring.
    Is it original?

    Rob
     
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