Southern Seminary (SBTS) Turing Reformed

Discussion in 'Baptist Colleges / Seminaries' started by Rhetorician, Feb 14, 2005.

  1. Rhetorician

    Rhetorician
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    Hey gang,

    My theological presuppostions are "out there." They are not secret. I have studied with Tom Nettles & Jimmy Millikin (MABTS) and have been in/around the Founder's Movement for some 20 years. I am even a tutor for Founder's Ministerial (Online) Academy.

    I would like to get the opinion of some "not-so Calvinist," Arminian, or "Main Stream Southern Baptitst (whatever that might be) in reference to the fact that The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary has turned somewhat Reformed since Al Mohler's tenure.

    Whatdayathink?

    sdg!

    rd
     
  2. NateT

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    I was a Cal-minian a few years ago. Honestly, I didn't really know about Calvinism etc. I took a Theology class online with Dr. Akin (4ter) and since that time, I've become more and more Calvinistic, thanks in large part to SBTS (where I'm at now.)


    As a side note, I would say that it is just getting back to its roots. The Abstract of Principles is what was written in 1859. It's just that Mohler is actually causing professors to agree with it (unlike previous admins.)

    As a former "not-so Calvinist" I am all for the turning of the seminary [​IMG]
     
  3. dianetavegia

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  4. PastorSBC1303

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    I know that many are not happy with them being reformed. However, I would think that the majority of the SBC is thrilled that SBTS is in strong conservative hands and is 100% better than it was just a few years ago.
     
  5. koreahog2005

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    I'm an SBC (IMB) missionary and a graduate of SWBTS and MABTS. I'm a three-point Baptist (TUP), but I don't have any problems with Southern being mainly 5-point Calvinist. There's room under the 2000 Baptist Faith and Message for 2-pointers, 3-pointers, 4-pointers, and 5-pointers, so I have no problem with one of our seminaries emphasizing the 5 points. If all our seminaries were that way, I'd have a problem.
     
  6. gb93433

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    That shouldn't surprise us when Southern brought in a number of non-SBC from the outside to work there. SWBTS is also bring on a number of profesors outside of SBC circles. Some have come from DTS.
     
  7. Broadus

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    The non-SBC profs at SBTS have been solidly Baptist and solidly inerrantist. They are also outstanding evangelical scholars. I find it healthy to have non-SBC Baptists brought on board.

    BTW, remember all those "pure" SBC profs who signed the Abstract of Principles with a wink and crossed fingers, one of whom, a professor of ethics (!), wrote a pamphlet "The Heresy of Inerrancy." He later admitted that he signed the Abstract with an understanding of the president at that time that he did not hold to the doctrine of election as put forth in the Abstract.

    That SBTS, in particular, should hold to the doctrines of grace (or Calvinist soteriology) should be expected if one reads the Abstract of Principles to which each professor must subscribe.

    Blessings,
    Bill
     
  8. NateT

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    btw: The abstract only requires 4 points, it leaves off Limited Atonement. I have at least one or two profs who have admitted that they are only 4 point Calvinists. However, for the most part, it hasn't been a regular discussion in any class except Systematic.
     
  9. PastorSBC1303

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    Very well said! [​IMG]
     
  10. koreahog2005

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  11. bobbyd

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    I'm a Dec 2003 grad of SBTS, and began my studies there in the fall of 1995, 1 year after Dr Mohler came in.
    The vast majority of the faculty, and i wouldn't be surprised if it is at least 85%, can be considered 4-5 point Calvanists...although most prefer the more PC term of reformed. And they do teach their classes from that point of view.

    This was fine with me, for the most part i did agree with them, although i do not consider myself to be a "calvanist" (last time i checked, Christ died for my sins, not John Calvin).

    I really don't see any of the other seminaries in the SBC going this far to the right in terms of reformed theology. Danny Akin is cut from the same mold as Al Mohler, but SEBTS is not know for being the academic school that SBTS has historically been. And Paige Patterson admits to only being a 4 pointer, so that leaves SWBTS out...and those two might be the only ones to head in the direction of being labeled "Calvinist".

    Just my 2 cents, God bless.
    bobbyd
     
  12. JGrayhound

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    Not to side-track the discussion, but no one believes Calvin has any part of salvation, it's a simple way of identifying one's self....much like Baptist. Does anyone here believe they are saved by baptism?? Anyone? Didn't think so.

    I know you wrote that tongue in cheek, but it is really insignificant and irrelevant to the discussion, and only confuses dialogue. Moreover, what Calvin believes is really irrelevant, which is why the discussion over Calvin being a 4 pt or 5pt really means nothing.

    Sorry to sidetrack, just something I wanted to point out.

    Back to the point of the thread, I am glad that Southern is the way it is. Obviously many people are as it is growing immensely. It has also clearly separated itself from the other seminaries as a cut above. Thankfully there is one seminary who is dedicated to the theology it was founded with, and I think James Boyce would be elated with where Southern is today.
     
  13. Broadus

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    I'm also thankful that SEBTS is not the seminary it started out as! My understanding is that it was fairly liberal from its inception (1951), but no longer.

    Blessings,
    Bill
     
  14. koreahog2005

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    Bobbyd, I think Dr. Patterson is a three-pointer (TUP). Check out what he said in the following quote:

    From Tammi Reed Ledbetter's article, “Patterson, Pressler Caution Baptists Against Distractions From Evangelism,” November 15, 1999, Baptist Press News, http://www.baptistpress.org/bpnews.asp?ID=2699
     
  15. izzaksdad

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    You are correct Broadus. When Dr. Patterson took over as President in mid-90's he told me, my wife, and my parents that SEBTS was responsible for thousands of dead churches on the east coast. It was his intention to change that, and I believe he did a great job of righting the ship.

    koreahog, you would be correct- Dr. Patterson would say he was a 3 pointer. If I can lay my hands on it, some of you might be interested in hearing what Dr. Akin had to say about SBTS's Abstract of Principles when he was there as Mohler's dean of students- I will look for it.
     
  16. koreahog2005

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    Izzaksdad, thanks for the confirmation. I noticed on your profile that you are a Clemson fan. I'm a Razorback fan. It sounds like both of our football coaches are going to be under greater than normal pressure to win this fall.
     
  17. izzaksdad

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    Tommy B. is always under pressure. Tommy B. goes to my father-in-laws church- great man. Very committed christian.

    I had Dr. Akin for systematic theology at SEBTS. We had some great discussions on the Calvinism issue. He would put up a 5 point scale on the board, and then we would call out our favorite, well known preachers name, and he would scale them right there for us. Needless to say, he had a lot of guys in a tizzy.

    Go Tigers!
     
  18. NateT

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    I had Akin at SBTS for theology. What I remember him saying about the Abstract was that there was room for a 4 pointer like him.
     
  19. koreahog2005

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    You guys make me feel old. Danny Akin was in the M.Div. program at SWBTS the same time I was in the early 80s. I think we had one class together. My favorite lecturer was Tom Nettles. I had him for Baptist History. Of course, I disagreed with his 5-point view. He handed me the chalk one day in class and let me put my system on the board. He sat down and watched as I was questioned by other students. I'll never forget that moment. That kind of give and take is unusual in seminaries. I think it's healthy. We can disagree in an agreeable way.
     
  20. NateT

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    Dr. Nettles is an awesome instructor. I've sat in his class 3 days a week since early August.
     

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