'Spanking' Bill Is Government Intrusion, Conservatives Warn

Discussion in '2008 Archive' started by Revmitchell, Apr 12, 2008.

  1. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
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    The Campaign for Children and Families believes the bill is aimed at "good parents who occasionally spank their children." The group warns that police and prosecutors will view all parents who spank their children as suspected child abuses worthy of investigation.

    Because the bill equates parental discipline with child abuse, it is flawed and must be defeated, Thomasson said. He and other conservatives say the government has no business telling parents how to raise their children.

    Moreover, because California already has laws making child abuse a crime, critics question why this bill is necessary.


    http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewCulture.asp?Page=/Culture/archive/200804/CUL20080411b.html
     
  2. LeBuick

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    What are your thoughts on this Rev.?

    I will say I spank my child and will probably do the same with my grandchildren if they EARN it...
     
  3. Revmitchell

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    I suspect this statement from the op is most likely true:


    "the bill is aimed at "good parents who occasionally spank their children." "


    There was a prior judgement from the appelate courts that said parents had no fundamental right to impose certain beliefs on their children. add to that the recent decision from the appellate court that parents do not have a fundamental right to educate their children and these three issues piled together seem to work to undermine parents and raise the government oversight.
     
  4. Salty

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    I just dont understand all the fuss! Why do parents demand to spank their children??!! My goodness, they do not allow any spanking in public schools and look at how good the school kids are!!
     
  5. LeBuick

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    You forgot to write </sarcasm> :laugh:

    I guess they don't want you to spank your kids but when he is backing out your window with your TV then they say you should have raised him better...
     
  6. Gold Dragon

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    Here is the latest text of the bill.

    California Legislature - AB 2943

    It appears that existing child abuse laws already make it illegal in California under specified circumstances to cause or permit a child to endure unjustifiable physical and mental suffering.

    This bill attempts to spell out specific instances of this including:
    -use of an implement
    -the throwing, kicking, burning, or cutting of a child
    -the striking of a child with a closed fist
    -the striking of a child under 3 years of age on the face or head
    -the vigorous shaking of a child under 3 years of age
    -the interference with a child's breathing
    -or the brandishing of a deadly weapon upon a child
    regardless of whether there was intentional will to cause suffering. Proof of the action alone is not enough to prove guilt.

    The bill also includes nonviolent parental education classes as part of probation for someone convicted.
     
  7. North Carolina Tentmaker

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    ok, so under this bill I can hit my kids in the face or head as long as they are over 3 years old and I keep my hand open.

    Wow, that makes sense:BangHead:
     
  8. tank1976

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    If you spank with out leaving a mark isn't that hard to prove you did it. It is one person's word against anothers. Just a thought...
     
  9. windcatcher

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    Wow! Was I ever abused when growing up.... and didn't know it.... I seldom got corporal punishment from other than my dad... but I remember mother used switches, and fly swatters on my lower legs or behind... and a first grade teacher reddened the palm of my hand for chewing gum in class...... and my seventh grade teacher... a male teacher at that, carried out the traditional birthday licks, performed by a student of my choosing, for the number of years of age... with the same paddle which he used when someone was persistantly mischeivious or 'smart alick' in class.... front and center..before all.

    Yeah, I think all these otherwise 'good people' need to be closely observed, thrown 4 years in prison, have untold legal cost/risk to their finances, their reputations questioned, attend supervised 'anger management' programs to teach them I don't have to learn to listen to and obey authority... or tell a lie.... or steal.... or attack another...or do my homework and family tasks....or....or.... They "hurt" me and should go to jail, have a life long record which may interfere and limit their ability to keep or obtain employment in certain occupations. They hurt me .... so that was not love..... to help me know right from wrong... lawful from unlawful..... respect for persons in authority ...... care of myself.... and as important... concern for my neighbor and his possessions. What an ugly mess their abuse made of me!

    As a child, I should have been uprooted from my home and parents who diapered and fed me when I could not:
    Who sheltered me:
    Who protected me... and taught me to watch my step.... but cleaned the boo-boo and taught me I'd be alright to go on.
    Who loved and hugged me... before I learned how to love or hug.
    Who took me to church, played the hymns on the home piano, and through my experience of discipline and pain....taught me how to accept and control my own anger.... because perceptions of child and adult do conflict from time to time.

    I should have been placed in 'foster' care where attachments are discouraged. Where people get paid to care for me... so my body gets cared for but my emotional and spiritual may be neglected...or offended in development:
    I should have been placed in foster care where I may be more vunerable to abuse... considering how my parents taught me submission to authority.... and the state agencies taught me that if I complain... I get moved again going from known to unknown.
    I should have been placed in foster care... where a social worker is so heavily loaded with 'clients' she phones and gathers her case reports and passes them on as on-site observations.... after all it justifies her pay check: Where the complaint of social services is that there are too few people to do the work of observing homes so the agency must grow larger and larger.

    I should have been placed in a foster home because someone happened to drop in when I was being punished... and their politics, or religious beliefs, or their ideas of raising children clash with those of my parents.... places them in a 'get even' or 'control' attitude opportunistic of presenting a formal complaint.

    Or I should have been placed in a foster home because ..... all the while my parents were working, and cleaning, and preparing the meals, and keeping us in clean clothes... they failed to document on each of 5 kids, the 'wrongs' we did and their approach in discipline... with such degree of professionalism and accuracy, that it would stand against the trainings of a social service investigator determined to prove the willful, and infliction, and unjustifiable: already biased to promote another additon to the case load which justifies the expenditure of their agency... and encourages the ego's own desire to levy control over others.

    ----------------
    I am being sarcastic.... but purposely so: All I see is what the media 'reports' (make that 'interprets....except for the quotations taken from the context of the bill). The words 'willfully", "inflict", "unjustifiable physical pain or mental suffering" on a child' denote a quality of subjectivity and presentation upon a 'service' which is heavily biased against parents:

    Folks, child abuse is very real. But the abusers hide their abuse. The abusers don't 'discipline for wrong doing and defiance..... they do it to hurt or project their own inadequacy upon another. So many abusive scandals, most of them only reported in the locally where they occur, has occurred in the state of Florida alone and within the auspicies and budgets of child protective agencies!

    We do have freedom of the press.... which means the ones who own the press controls the media... so reported abuse occurring within the agencies, are seldom brought to light except in the local papers or news where rumors and public questions demand some revelation and answers!
     
    #9 windcatcher, Apr 13, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 13, 2008
  10. Revmitchell

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    this is the same mindset that drove the principle of the NY school to blame the teacher for using the wrong words which resulted in the student beating the teacher. The principle said the teacher used a buzz word that caused the student to react the way he did when she told him not to get into her personal space. The student is still in school and the teacher is afraid to go back.

    These folks are not well in the mind.
     
  11. LeBuick

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    The teacher also said, "I will defend myself". I guess it was just a threat but she did warn them.
     
  12. mcdirector

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    Good heavens.

    These kinds of laws are what make us a free society?

    I've got a friend over here that was recently beaten at school by an 8th grader who was upset over a suspension for not having his drawers appropriately pulled up. The school asked him not to press charges. He did anyway and they were dismissed. Almost the exact scenario played out when I was in public HS (this was the year I decided to move back into Christian ed). Male student, male teacher - suspension. School asked teacher not to press charges, teacher did, charges dismissed. Teacher was black and blue. I cried when I saw him. I haven't seen the MS teacher in person - not that it matters what the damage looks like.
     

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