Speaking In Tongues Saves Life

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by plain_n_simple, Jul 5, 2015.

  1. plain_n_simple

    plain_n_simple
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    "A 60-year-old American grandmother recalled a harrowing incident that happened nearly four years ago when she managed to save herself from her armed kidnappers, finding peace and redemption through the power of prayer.

    One night in August 2011, Kathi Byker said she and her husband David were sleeping in their own Grandville, Michigan home when they were woken up by angry shouts, according to Charisma News.

    The shouts came from two men wearing ski masks and wielding knives, and they were demanding money.

    It wasn't long before they tied Kathi up using duct tape, and also covered her eyes and mouth. They dragged her to the couple's own sports utility vehicle, which they stole, and they told Kathi to stay put, otherwise they would kill her.

    "I believed that he would," Kathi admitted. "He had the knife right to my neck."

    The kidnappers earlier told David that he had to produce ransom money for his wife and to call them back when he already had the money.

    To be under somebody else's complete control "was just hell," Kathi recalled, so she started calling out to God. It was only then that her ordeal shifted.

    Kathi sought comfort in the Bible verse Romans 8:26 which says, "Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words."

    "It's the perfect prayer because it is from my spirit to God's Spirit without the mind getting involved," she said. And the more she recalled God's Word, the stronger Kathi felt despite her current situation.

    "The fear factor was lessening as the God factor was going up," she shared.

    When the car finally stopped, Kathi was dragged to a telephone booth, where her abductors tied her up using duct tape. "There's somebody behind you and if you try to escape, he'll kill you," they told her. They left Kathi in a cornfield.

    Kathi waited for 10 minutes after they left, and she managed to pull her hands free. "It was regular duct tape," she said. "It was strong and wrapped around a couple of times. It was tied around my knees. I saw it rip after just slight pressure and it was a miracle."

    She ran towards safety and saw a man sleeping in the back of the truck. She woke him up and asked for help, and he promptly called the police department. Kathi's abductors have since then been arrested, and police have noted that her experience was nothing short of a miracle.


    "I just praised God that I was a witness to His power," Kathi said. She realised that God was greater than her fear and she could rest in Him.

    Commenting on what happened to Kathi, Harold Vinson Synan, dean emeritus and visiting professor of church history at Regent University, said when Kathi uttered sounds through her tongue although her mouth was still covered in duct tape, she actually spoke in tongues, which he said "is a personal gift that can be exercised throughout your whole life."

    "The Holy Spirit prays for us when we don't know how to pray," Synan said.

    Doug Bergsma, 63, pastor of Rockford Resurrection Life Church in Rockford, Michigan, said he has known the Byker couple for over 20 years. When Kathi was kidnapped, Bergsma said he immediately received a call from her husband David who sought his help.

    Bergsma said he immediately prayed and by the time he arrived at the Byker's home, he found people already gathered and praying, some in tongues, Charisma News said.

    He explained that when one is baptised with the Holy Spirit, he or she gets a prayer language: the ability to speak in another language. He quoted 1 Corinthians 14:15 when Paul says: "What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding."

    Bergsma said tongues are a spiritual gift. "I have seen so many things over the years like words of direction, stories of divine protection, revelation and illumination beyond what the mind can grasp," he said. "In that situation, for Kathi to have peace and find peace is amazing proof of God's divine protection," Bergsma said."

    http://www.christiantoday.com/article/speaking.in.tongues.saves.life.of.grandma.who.was.kidnapped.and.tied.up.in.duct.tape/57717.htm
     
  2. SovereignGrace

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    Speaking in tongues has saved my life many times. I would start to do something and dad would say, 'son, you do that and I will kill you', so I would not. I am still alive unto this day.
     
  3. JohnDeereFan

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    Yep. I recognize that from my days in the WoF cult as pretty typical of WoF bovine skubulon.

    "Without the mind getting involved"??? How in the world is that Biblical?

    And, for that matter, what does Romans 8:26 have to do with tongues?
     
    #3 JohnDeereFan, Jul 5, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 5, 2015
  4. DHK

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    How does one utter groanings which cannot be uttered??
     
  5. Revmitchell

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    I do that every time I get off the couch or get out of bed. It is even worse if I have to get up off of the floor.
     
  6. Rebel

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    This teaching of getting the mind out of it is cultic, and I am not one to use that word lightly. God gives us minds for a reason, and we are meant to use them.

    Also, a "prayer language" is unscriptural.
     
  7. Alcott

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    I think there's a lot of baloney there.

    Kathi waited for 10 minutes after they left, and she managed to pull her hands free. "It was regular duct tape," she said. "It was strong and wrapped around a couple of times. It was tied around my knees. I saw it rip after just slight pressure and it was a miracle."

    10 minutes of pressure is "slight pressure?" Even if it was stuck tightly, that's a "miracle," is it?

    He explained that when one is baptised with the Holy Spirit, he or she gets a prayer language: the ability to speak in another language. He quoted 1 Corinthians 14:15 when Paul says: "What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding."

    There is nothing about a personal prayer language in any of those passages. And what would be the the difference from saying, "God, consider what it is I don't know what to pray for-- prayed for!" He wouldn't hear that but he would hear your babbling and make it into his virtual infinity of languages for what he already knew? Maybe? If so, that's doing it the hard way compared to just canceling the whole criminal event before it started, which obviously is well within his power.
     
  8. convicted1

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    I can symphatize with this statement. Being 44 with degeneritive disc disease and knees that 'snap, crackle, & pop', I sadly know what you mean.



    Sent from my BNTV400 using Tapatalk
     
  9. convicted1

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    Sent from my BNTV400 using Tapatalk
     
  10. Thousand Hills

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    My "groanings which cannot be uttered" experiences are usually at about 3 in the morning after eating taco bell the previous day.
     
  11. plain_n_simple

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    "Without the mind getting involved"??? How in the world is that Biblical?

    1 Corinthians 14

    14---> For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.


    "Unfruitful" means no understanding. The mind does not understand what your spirit says. We are made up of 3 things, Spirit, Body, Soul..the soul is the mind and heart, which need repentance (changing the mind) until we have the full mind of Christ. Our mind is still corrupt with the way the world thinks, but is changing if we submit, putting off the old man.

    15---> So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my understanding.

    2 separate entities are being described here, the spirit, and the mind. Paul worships with the mind and worships with the spirit. He does not say he is "combining" the mind and the spirit to worship. 2 separate entities and 2 separate actions.

    "And, for that matter, what does Romans 8:26 have to do with tongues?"

    26---> In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans.

    Our hearts, minds, do not know what to pray for. Yes Jesus told us how to pray with our minds, but He revealed to us later a deeper, better way to pray, in the Spirit! The Spirit had not yet come when He gave instructions. The Father gave us even more gifts!

    The Holy Spirit does it for us and does not use your minds ability to understand or have any involvement. It's still corrupt. It is the Holy Spirit searching out our hearts and speaking to our spirits, and our spirit speaks also to the Holy Spirit.

    We have the Spirit of Christ in us.

    God's design was for our Spirit's to reign over our minds and hearts, and bodies.
    When Adam sinned, the mind then ruled his spirit and body. Sin's access is through the mind.
    We constantly renew our minds by denying ourselves, to be like Him.
     
  12. JohnDeereFan

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    That's some eisegesis you've got there.
     
  13. Revmitchell

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    Verse 14: "For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful."


    Notice here Paul uses the word "if". This is clearly intended to set up a hypothetical situation. Such a hypothetical is used in the context of speaking publicly in a language others do not understand while together in church.

    "if" I stand and pray in church in a language that even I do not know then it has no benefit (unfruitful).

    Paul is correct the poor use of languages no one else knows. In verse 15 Paul proclaims rather than pray or do anything no one else understands he will instead pray or sing in a way everyone understands.

    "What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also."

    In verse 22 Paula goes on to say that tongues or other languages are great for evangelism but lousy for speaking in the church around others who do not understand what is being said.


    "Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe."
     
  14. plain_n_simple

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    "For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries"

    Communion with the Holy Spirit on His level—in His language.

    Paul defines Holy Spirit as the One who “searches out everything and shows us God’s deep secrets” (1 Cor. 2:10).

    As you pray in the Spirit, you will discover those things that were mysterious and unknown, to start coming into greater focus and clarity.
    "Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit" (Eph. 6:18)

    Praying in tongues is not public.

    Praying with words out loud or in silence is not praying in the Spirit. That is the heart/mind praying. It is separate from a man's spirit.

    A believer's spirit is joined with the Spirit of Christ, Him in us, us in Him.
    Our spirit has been made perfect in Him.

    Our minds have not. The corrupt mind cannot speak what we need to pray for....to the in-corrupt Holy Spirit..the Holy Spirit urges our spirit to pray.

    That is why Paul said He prays with words/understanding, and he also prayed in the Spirit, which by definition, cannot be words understood. They have to be words not understood.

    A believer cannot pray in the Spirit and not pray in tongues. It is impossible.


    2 And I, brethren, when I came to you, did not come with excellence of speech or of wisdom declaring to you the testimony[a] of God. 2 For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified. 3 I was with you in weakness, in fear, and in much trembling. 4 And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, 5 that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.
    Spiritual Wisdom

    6 However, we speak wisdom among those who are mature, yet not the wisdom of this age, nor of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. 7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory, 8 which none of the rulers of this age knew; for had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

    9 But as it is written:

    “Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
    Nor have entered into the heart of man
    The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”[c]

    10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.

    13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy[d] Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. 16 For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?”[e] But we have the mind of Christ.
     
    #14 plain_n_simple, Jul 6, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 6, 2015
  15. Revmitchell

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    You have no idea what "in the Spirit" is.
     
  16. plain_n_simple

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    You do not pray in the Spirit, you could not possibly know what it is.
     
  17. Don

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    I pray in the Spirit every time I pray. I also understand what I am praying.
     
  18. Yeshua1

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    So a sovereign God needs to have us tonge talk in order to be able to deliver us then?

    And how can one speak in other tongues when there is no scripture to support that for today?

    And Paul stated to us that we ALL have ALL spiritual blessings in Christ now, but are you saying those in speak in tongues have even more so?
     

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