Speaking in Tongues Volume 3...

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by D28guy, Dec 22, 2005.

  1. D28guy

    D28guy
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    Just in case those who were involved want to continue.

    Grace and peace,

    Mike
     
  2. hillclimber

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    Tongues are not for this dispensation of grace. Even if they were, the churches practising it today are all wrong. There was no gibberish, or elvin tongues, and there was always present those in who's tongue the utterances were spoken. There was always an interpreter, and it always was for the edification of the believers present.
     
  3. atestring

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    I agree there is no "gibberish".
    Find me a greek word in the New Testament text for the word "gibberish"?????
    The message Bible uses this word but there is no greek word for this and there is not a placement of such a word in regard to tongues.
    Gibberish is a word slung around by those that believe in the cessationist heresy.
    I have issued the challenge for over 4 years.
    So someone give me a greek word for "gibberish".
     
  4. hillclimber

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    If it is a problem to you in my post, disregard it, though many people use it today as a descriptive term that fits precisely. To an unbeliever of tongues utterances for today, find a better descriptive word.
     
  5. atestring

    atestring
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    Hillclimber
    I issue you the challenge again. Give me a greek word in the New Testament for giberish.
    Is this an unreasonable request?
     
  6. Ray Berrian

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    hillclimber,

    You completely do not understand I Cor. 12 & 14.

    Your view is that the Corinthian church was like the United Nations in the spiritual sense of the word. There was always someone in church who understood the national language who could interpret the tongue.

    Does your view really make sense to you?
     
  7. Ray Berrian

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    atestring,

    You said, 'I agree there is no "gibberish".
    Find me a greek word in the New Testament text for the word "gibberish"?????
    The message Bible uses this word but there is no greek word for this and there is not a placement of such a word in regard to tongues.
    Gibberish is a word slung around by those that believe in the cessationist heresy.
    I have issued the challenge for over 4 years.
    So someone give me a greek word for "gibberish".

    .
     
  8. Link

    Link
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    I don't recall DHK ever answering my question from the first thread. Thread 2 got away from me, so point me to the post if he did.

    Here it is.

    1. DHK believes that 'that which is perfect' in i Corinthians 13 is the completed scriptures.

    2. According to Paul, before the perfect came, his understanding was childish in comparison to what it would be after the perfect came.

    3. Much of the completed NT scriptures contain Paul's understanding of the Gospel.

    4. How can you say that the NT is 'complete' if it contains the revelations of someone who had a childish understanding of the Gospel?

    5. How can you believe that the spiritual understanding of those who us who have the New Testament is superior to the authors we are learning from?
     
  9. hillclimber

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    NO!!!It is a modern word for nonsensical utterances, and is my opinion based on general knowlege of scripture.
     
  10. hillclimber

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    I completely agree. I am/was refering to the pentacostals of today. The utterances/gibberish is usually unintelligent babblings of desperate folks hoping for the gift of tongues, for some reason or another, that does not exist today. I've heard Tilton and others on TV jabber and have talked to many folks in the local pentacostal churches that know languages when they hear them that testify against those in their churches, though unofficially.
     
  11. DHK

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    Atestring, you have just made the case for cessationism quite succinctly, and this time I agree with you. Preach it brother!

    You are absolutely right. There is no Greek word for gibberish, for gibberish is not found in the New Testament. Gibberish rightly defines the Modern Day Tongues movemnen which started in the beginning of the 20th century and is carried on by the Charismatics of today.
    The Biblical gift of tongues was never gibberish. The Greek word "glossa" used 50 times in the New Testament always meant a language, unless it referred to the actual organ as it occasionally did in James 3. The common meaning was language, thus speaking in an other tongue was speaking in a foreign language given to one miraculously by God.
    The Biblical gift of tongues was common enough in the first half of the first century. Today there is no demonstrable proof of this gift being given to anyone. That is not to say God is not able to if he wished to, but it is to say, that the gift has ceased. It is not a common occurence. It was a sign to the Jews. It was a sign of the apostles. It is no longer in operation.
    What is in operation is some deceptive imitation of the gift called gibberish. The word is not in the New Testament, because what is happening today did not happen in the New Testament. The true gift of tongues ceased. You have made an excellent case for cessation. Keep up the good work. [​IMG]
    DHK
     
  12. Ray Berrian

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    'I've heard Tilton and others on TV jabber and have talked to many folks in the local pentacostal churches that know languages when they hear them that testify against those in their churches, though unofficially.'

    .
     
  13. DHK

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    If you have never been to Heaven you have nothing to verify that. It is pure speculation. It is the Catholic argument saying that there were babies in the jailor's household and therefore infant baptism is legitimate--argument from silence.

    Hebrews 1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
    --What has this verse got to do with speaking in tongues? Absolutely nothing! The only tongue or language that man knows that an angel ever spoke in is a human tongue, one that man understands.
    --Thus the gift of tongues is a national language, or a foreign language. That is what the angel Gabriel spoke to Mary isn't. Didn't Gabriel speak to Mary in her native language? Isn't that therefore an angelic language. That would prove you wrong right there. All angelic tongues in the Bible were human native tongues. If you can demonstrate otherwise using Scripture I am open to hear a legitimate argument.
    Every verse must be taken in its context. God spoke to Moses in a burning bush. He spoke to Samuel in an audible voice. He spoke to Jacob when he wrestled with the angel of the Lord. Does God speak to you these ways today? Have you had any wrestling matches with the angel of the Lord recently; seen any burning bushes that burn without being consumed? God doesn't speak to individuals that way anymore; neither does he speak to indiividuals through the gift of tongues anymore. The gift of tongues has ceased, which can be aptly demonstrated through Scripture. If it has ceased then the command "Forbid not to speak in tongues" was given only to the Corinthian Church, or first century Christians, not to us.
    There is rarely interpretation. If you are familiar with the average Charismatic Church you already know that. If you are familiar with the average Charismatic Church you know they speak in gibberish, and not actual foreign languages, as the word "glossa" means.

    Absolutely right. And that is a very common occurence isn't it?

    I wouldn't notice because I don't watch him. I only have read of his doctrine, and that is enough for me to know to stay as far away from him as possible. His doctrine is also very close to that of Benny Hinn--heretical.

    Seed faith is a scam to get rich. The more money you send the greater miracle God will give you. Hogwash? That is simply a scam for Tilton to make merchandise of the people. Here is what the Bible says about that:

    2 Peter 2:1-3 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

    Through covetousness they make merchandise of the people. That describes Tilton exactly. His covetousness of money causes him to scam people of their money in order for him to become rich. He is full of empty promises that never come true.
    You can say that again.
    DHK
     
  14. ituttut

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    Good post hillclimber. Christian faith, ituttut
     
  15. ituttut

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    Is there a word in the Greek for "Unintelligible talking"? Christian faith, ituttut
     
  16. Ray Berrian

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    hillclimber,

    You said, 'NO!!!It is a modern word for nonsensical utterances, and is my opinion based on general knowlege of scripture.'

    .
     
  17. Ray Berrian

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    DHK,

    You said, 'If you have never been to Heaven you have nothing to verify that. It is pure speculation. It is the Catholic argument saying that there were babies in the jailor's household and therefore infant baptism is legitimate--argument from silence.'

    .

    You said, There is rarely interpretation. If you are familiar with the average Charismatic Church you already know that. If you are familiar with the average Charismatic Church you know they speak in gibberish, and not actual foreign languages, as the word "glossa" means.'

    .



    You said, 'I wouldn't notice because I don't watch him. I only have read of his doctrine, and that is enough for me to know to stay as far away from him as possible. His doctrine is also very close to that of Benny Hinn--heretical.'

    .

    You said, 'Seed faith is a scam to get rich. The more money you send the greater miracle God will give you. Hogwash? That is simply a scam for Tilton to make merchandise of the people. Here is what the Bible says about that.'

    You said, '2 Peter 2:1-3 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

    Through covetousness they make merchandise of the people. That describes Tilton exactly. His covetousness of money causes him to scam people of their money in order for him to become rich. He is full of empty promises that never come true.'
     
  18. DHK

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    I don't have to stick my head in a garbage pail to know that it is dirty. I don't have to indulge my self in narcotics to minister to a drug-addict. Maybe you have to do these things, but I don't.

    The Word of God is my standard; not experience. I have seen and observed people speaking in tongues in open air servinces. I have never witnessed interpretation. My challenge always goes out to those that have supposed interpretation: if you don't know it is a valid language that someone in the audience can validate, then how do you know the interpretation is just made up and fake? You don't. In fact the real message in tongues may be praising Satan and not God and the interpreter would never know it. He's off in his own dreamland saying things that he has no idea of what nonsense syllables supposedly mean. Nonsense means nonsense both to man and to God. But it does open the way to demonic activity.

    People like Tilton and Hinn claim they do so much for God. Over and over again Hinn claims that every cent you give will go to the ministry of the Lord's work. Is that true. Hinn is a cheat, a liar, and a fraud, not to mention an unsaved false prophet who makes merchandise of the people. Here is some information documented by CBC:

    Benny Hinn insists that every penny is spent on God's work. But the fifth estate obtained confidential financial records from inside the Hinn ministry. These documents were provided by individuals who say they want the public to know how Benny Hinn spends the money entrusted to him.
    31/7/3 at the Lanesborough, in London, for a one night stay Hinn spent a total of 3,347.67 pounds. Currently a pound is about twice the value of a Canadian dollar. The current rate of exchange is 1.735 for the American dollar. Either way you look at it, for a one night stay in a hotel, that is a lot of money for a man who vows that all his money goes to the ministry—every penny that you give. He makes merchandise of the people.

    • Tips given to staff at Lanesborough Hotel in London after a one day stay (see chit .pdf)
    These amounted to: 1700 pounds.

    • Tips given to the staff at the Savoia Hotel in Milan, Italy (see chit .pdf)
    1500 pounds plus those that are unwritten and unaccounted for.

    $5000US dollars cash given to Pastor Benny Hinn (PBH), no details for the reason (see chit .pdf)

    A gift from Benny Hinn to a 'homeless woman with a baby' of $20US (see chit .pdf)
    --Oh the irony of it all. Every penny of what you give will go into the Lord’s service. Thousands of thousands are spent on Benny Hinn, and he finally has time to give $20.00 to a homeless woman. Such sacrifice is displayed here.

    You can view the full report as well as much more information at:
    The Fifth Estate: Benny Hinn
    DHK
     
  19. Ray Berrian

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    Do you have any idea how much money it takes to rent a stadium, plus lights, sound, etc.? In Florida soon they are going to make available to each visitor--the option of listening to his message and service in the Spanish language. More costs.

    Each time he enters a stadium the cost is also there to pay the bills.

    The man works hard as does his staff.

    He just built a new headquarters somewhere. More millions of dollars.

    If you know the costs of running a small church, if you are a pastor, you know that even garbage bills--in PA. we get charged the commercial rate by way of cost.

    I am not saying he spends money carefully. I have no way of knowing.

    Just giving you the other side of the coin to look at.
     
  20. gb93433

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    The Benny Hinn website does not list his doctrinal statement nor his financial statement.

    In contrast Billy Graham has a doctrinal statement and a financial statement available for public scrutiny.

    Compare the difference.
     

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