Speaking in Tongues

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Amity, Dec 29, 2004.

  1. Amity

    Amity
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    What’s wrong with people “invoking the Holy Spirit” to be able to speak in tongues?

    First, we’ll start with
    1 John 4:1
    Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. (KJV)

    In other words, test out what you are hearing or seeing. If it ain’t Biblical, it ain’t the Holy Spirit.
    There is a misconception among charismatic denominations that this gibberish they are uttering is the Holy Spirit speaking through them. First of all, in the Bible, speaking in tongues was meant as a foreign language....not this blabbering you hear from people in some churches today. The Jews required a sign in order to believe things. In Acts Chapter 2, Jesus sent the Holy Spirit into the hearts of the Apostles and caused them to speak in tongues, or in languages they didn’t even know how to speak in, so that the people gathered around would hear them in their native language and understand the message of Jesus being Christ and Savior.

    Let me explain something further I just said about Jews requiring a sign. In the early days after Jesus’ resurrection, the Jews required signs to prove things (as they did in the Old Testament times as well), but the Gentiles believed by faith alone. Anyone that is not a Jew, is a Gentile. We are Gentiles.

    Back to Acts 2 and tongues.....this was the very first Pentacost. It was when the Holy Spirit came into those who accepted Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. At the very moment we believe, the Holy Spirit comes upon us and lives in our heart for eternity to do the good works of God through us. But, that’s getting on another subject.....being born again (John Chapter 3).

    There were two other places in Acts where the Apostles spoke in tongues. That would be in Chapters 10 and 19. These places, also, were foreign languages...their native tongue.

    The people in today’s churches that claim that to prove you have received Jesus into your heart, you have to be able to speak in “tongues”, are mistaken in another way as well.

    We learn of the Spirit gifts in 1 Corinthians, Chapters 12-14. If you read the very first several verses in Chapter 12, you will notice that the scriptures tell us that there are many gifts, but no one has all the gifts. All of us (Christians) make up one body....the body of Christ....Jesus is the head and chief cornerstone of the temple (body of Christ) and when you put all of us together, such as in a church congregation, you have enough parts of the body for each individual to contribute their own gifts given to them by God, to make the whole body of Christ work for God’s purpose. Now the problem I have with charismatic churches, is that they claim that ALL of their members must speak in tongues to “prove” that the Holy Spirit is dwelling in them. That’s hogwash, I say! And so does the Bible. Like I just said.....not everyone possesses the same Spirit gifts, so if someone tells you that everyone that is saved and has Jesus in their heart must have the gift of tongues, it just ain’t Biblical!

    These churches base their doctrine (belief) of speaking in tongues off of ONE verse in the Bible. That’s 1 Corinthians 14:2:
    “For he that speaketh in an unknown tongues speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.” (KJV)


    First of all, anyone who bases an entire belief system on only ONE VERSE in the Bible, has some serious problems, in my humble opinion. But what these churches fail to realize, is that the Apostle Paul was writing this letter (1 Corinthians) to a misguided church who had gone astray. He was writing to them in this verse that the person speaking in these “tongues” (here it is that gibberish which you heard), are misguided. Notice that in this verse, the word “spirit” is not capitalized. Anytime God, Father, Jesus, Christ, or Holy Spirit is written in the Bible, the authors capitalized it out of respect for God that He is well deserving of. In this verse, it is not capitalized. Paul is making a point here that the spirit with which they are using is not the Holy Spirit, which is the third person of the trinity. (God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit). I am suggesting here that if it is not the Holy Spirit of God, then what “spirit” they are speaking with is a spirit of the devil. It is truly sad that so many people have taken this verse out of context without properly understanding the meaning, because I have met some wonderfully kind people in charismatic churches who obviously love Jesus very much.....but they are indeed misguided. They are told by their pastors and elders that in order to receive the Holy Spirit it must be proved. Remember I said earlier....Jews required a sign....not us Gentiles. The Corinthians were misguided Gentiles, as are these new age churches that are following the same practice.

    Now on to the next verses: v.3 & 4
    “But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort. He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.”

    In these verses, “prophesies” is referring to teaching the Gospel message. Paul is telling the church at Corinth that all this gibberish they have gotten into doing is only pleasing to themselves personally....not the church. He is telling them that they need to focus their energies on strengthening their ministries and encouraging and comforting church members. So that’s what we need to focus on.....being a part of the body of Christ which Jesus is the head, and not doing things that we know in our heart of hearts is not of the Holy Spirit or pleasing to God.

    God bless, Amity
     
  2. ChurchBoy

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    Another "tongues" thread! We can't have enough of those can we? :D

    I predict that the follwing will happen:

    1) By page two it turn into DHK and Dr. Bob vs MEE, Tamborine Lady, and Co.

    2) A fight over the definiton of "perfect".

    3) At least one person will refer to the current tongues movement as "demonic"

    4) Someone will insult Dr. Bob.

    5) A warning will be issued.

    6) DHK will post a well reasoned and Biblically solid argument that will be posted at least eight times.

    6) No one will refute DHK's argument, at least one that will satisfy DHK.

    7) And after this thread dies down, in three weeks someone else will open up an new tongues thread.

    [ December 29, 2004, 06:20 PM: Message edited by: ChurchBoy ]
     
  3. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
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    ffufgufguygilygigilgiygioyfofuy
    oyfliyufilfuyilfuyilyfilyfiyfy
    ilfiyflliyfliyfoiufyolt
    ylyfgliugyoi
    lgligi
    lgil
    ygliygl.kk,.h
    giugli;
    ugilyfgouy
    gougou
    giu
    g
    iu

    Can somebody interpret this for me? [​IMG]

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  4. ChurchBoy

    ChurchBoy
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    I like John Kerry? [​IMG]
     
  5. Joseph_Botwinick

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    Yes, Churchboy. I agree with you that it was indeed vain babbling. [​IMG]
     
  6. ChurchBoy

    ChurchBoy
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    [​IMG]
     
  7. prophecynut

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    Looking good Amity, I'll give you [​IMG] [​IMG] up on your post.

    The first church I attended after conversion was Assembly of God. On one night when singers Dean and Mary held a concert a person blared out speaking in tongues followed by an interpretation.
    As usher I walked up to the front to get a closer look and said "That's not speaking in tongues." Somebody went whining to an associate pastor who then told the senior pastor. We all had a meeting where they requested I leave if I could not agree to their doctrine. I left with a smile on my face and they ended up with eggs on their faces.

    They traded the gift of prophecy for counterfeit tongues, certainly their loss and my gain.

    Speaking in tongues (gibberish) is counterfeiting the works of the Holy Spirit, and a serious transgression against God's holy Word.
     
  8. Amity

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    LOL!!! Didn't realize i was gonna "stir the pot"....just thought I'd post a study I did on the subject. [​IMG]

    oh, and "I like John Kerry?" yes....I'd definitely say that's "vain babbling" to a "T" [​IMG]

    Love in Christ.
     
  9. MEE

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    Sure!..it says the Joseph Botwinick doesn't have the Spirit of God because if he did he wouldn't make fun of the gift given by our Creator. Acts 2:4

    Shame on you "Joey."

    MEE [​IMG]
     
  10. Gina B

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    Joseph, you need to quit mocking people.
    Mee, please try not to respond, especially in a way that can be construed as questioning his salvation.

    My goodness, I'm starting to think too many people are posting while on Holiday Sugar Highs. Hand over the sweets! I've had more posts reported to me in the last two days than all month long!

    Gina
     
  11. Born Again Catholic

    Born Again Catholic
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    Per Gina

    Yes Mee, Gina apparently only approves of this when it is directed towards Catholics.

    This may seem hypocritical but I guess all of us suffer from a little hypocrisy.
     
  12. Gina B

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    Bless you BAC.
    Gina
     
  13. Joseph_Botwinick

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    So BAC,

    What do you think about speaking in tongues? What is the official Church position?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  14. Born Again Catholic

    Born Again Catholic
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    Here are some Catholic articles that discuss this, this site is a catholic encyclopedia not an apologetics site so I am not sure if it will pass the moderators edit test.


    http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03588e.htm
    http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14776c.htm

    As I understand it the Church teaches in the gift of tongues and interpretation of tongues so I wouldn’t make fun of someone who claims to have the gift but I would caution anyone who claims to have the gift to seek spiritual guidance to make sure they weren’t be led by “undisciplined religious spirit (pneuma), or rather by frenzied emotions and not by the understanding (nous) of the Spirit of God”

    The Catholic Encyclopedia, Volume III

    “What today purports to be the "gift of tongues" at certain Protestant revivals is a fair reproduction of Corinthian glossolaly, and shows the need there was in the primitive Church of the Apostle's counsel to do all things "decently, and according to order"

    God Bless
     
  15. Joseph_Botwinick

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    Can you just give me the reader's digest version? Are they for it or against it in modern day times?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  16. Born Again Catholic

    Born Again Catholic
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    Asked and answered

    Out of curiosity, exactly in what year did modern times start.
     
  17. tamborine lady

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    [​IMG]

    Forgive them Father for they know not what they do.
     
  18. The Undiscovered Country

    The Undiscovered Country
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    Hello Amity.

    I don't see anything in scripture that sets tongues up as a sign to the jews. Yes, tongues happened when the Holy Spirit fell at Penecost but that was the fulfillment of Jesus' promise that the Father would send His Spirit, not a sign in itself to the Jews or the Gentiles. Indeed, as you highlight, Paul makes the point that, compared to other gifts such as prophecy, tongues is not an effective sign to unbelievers.
    It isn't correct that all charismatic churches teach the above. Some do, but, as far I can see, the biblical position is that, whilst tongues is a very common gift, it isn't one that everyone will have, and it certainly isn't the only gift that one would expect to be mainifested when someone is baptised in the Holy Spirit
    I don't know NT Greek so I can't get into why 'spirit' isn't capitalised or indeed whether this accurately reflects the Greek. However I cannot see how you draw the conclusion that Paul is suggesting that people are speaking with the spirit of the devil. Can I say with all respect and gentleness that I do think that anyone needs to tread carefully and thoughtfully before suggesting that someone apparantly speaking with the spirit of God is actually speaking with the spirit of the Devil. That does seem to me to be very dangerous ground if it actually really is God at work.
    Where is the context to suggest that Paul is referring to anything but actual prophecies?
    Being an active part of the body of Christ is essential for any believer but I don't see how you can assume that people who use the gifts of the Spirit are doing things 'that we know in our heart of hearts is not of the Holy Spirit or pleasing to God'.
     
  19. Michael52

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    What about:

    Isaiah 28:11
    For by people of strange lips
    and with a foreign tongue
    the Lord will speak to this people,
     
  20. Ben W

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    Near here there is a Catholic Charasmatic Church, so I am tipping that they are fine with the idea of speaking in Toungues.
     

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