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Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Frenchy, Apr 2, 2006.
What is your definition and has anyone here experenced it?
What is it?
You hear a lot about physical abuse and emotional abuse and even sexual abuse, but not spiritual abuse.
sanderson1769's recent post on "Hell a vision" reminded me of people I have counseled on the issue of siritual abuse. they usually come out of churches just like his. Does that help any?
I would lend that definition to any cult like experience.
depends on which christian venue you have experienced. "spiritual abuse" is a huge topic in the word of faith/charismatic camp.
I would define it as exerting "Biblical" doctrines and expecting full obesiance to leadership as they call it or to whom ever is exercising the control. Some would call this the "Nicolatian" doctrine or as mentioned, cultish behavior.
For instance - Jim Jones, David Koresh - both excellent examples of spiritual abuse which led to death.
Some have also said the "the Passion" movie is spiritual abuse because it forces people to view via creative license as it takes the form of watching Jesus get battered to a bloody mess [not historical or Biblical] and therefore causing extreme pain to the viewer - as if they need to "experience" Jesus suffering to "understand" what He did for us. That is also considered a form of spiritual abuse.
False teachings, false teachers all proclaiming special knowledge and revelation so that Christians will buy their books, tapes, videos, programs to "improve" ones walk or have a "purpose" in life to fulfil God's will. Some view this as spiritual abuse as well.
Yes, to me spiritual abuse would have to rise far above the level of preaching against TV.
bapmom not sure you heard this guys sermon but he displayed in this sermon and a few others i listened to cult like behavior, consisting of extreme control and manipulation.
Spiritual abuse is trying to make somebody do something against their will, like, a husband actually expecting his wife to submit to his authority. Anyone who trys to make someone do something they don't want to do is a spiritual abuser. There are a lot of women, especially in fundamentalist circles, who are spiritually abused. They just need to read the right books to realize it.
Very good James, any good books you recommend?
yeah, I recommend them to be thrown out though.
here is a quote from this highly recommended book "Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse" one of several books on the subject in my library.
David Johnson & Jeff VanVonderen http://www.cephasministry.com/shepherding_spiritual_abuse.html
"What is "Spiritual Abuse?" It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery (Gal. 5:1). "Spiritual abuse can occur when a leader uses his or her spiritual position to control or dominate another person." (p.20) "Spiritual abuse can also occur when spirituality is used to make others live up to a 'spiritual standard'." (p.21) Spiritual abuse occurs when shame is "used in an attempt to get someone to support a belief, or to fend off legitimate questions". (p.22) "When your words and actions tear down another, or attack or weaken a person's standing as a Christian-to gratify you, your position or your beliefs, while at the same time weakening or harming another-that is spiritual abuse." (p.23) "There are spiritual systems in which…the members are there to meet the needs of the leaders… These leaders attempt to find fulfillment through the religious performance of the very people whom they are there to serve and build. This is an inversion of the body of Christ. It is spiritual abuse." (p.23) "The Christian life begins with freedom from dead works, from religious systems and from all human attempts to 'please God'. It's time for many of us to shake off the religious systems and expectations we've created, and return to that joyful freedom in Christ." (p.26)"
Yeah, thats one of them. Throw that one out. The bible talks about people who write books like that.
2 Timothy 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
Not getting it, why are you contradicting yourself?
I see that sarcasm is lost on you. I do not appreciate people who try to convince my wife that she does not need to be under my authority. These people are breaking up marriages for filthy lucre. Any thing that a woman doesn't want to submit to (like what church were going to attend, or how our family is going to dress) gets labeled 'spiritual abuse' and the woman gets to feel like she is justified for leaving her husband. That is an evil device of the devil.
Sorry James I wasn't going there but now that you did. I was specifically speaking about pastors, husbands would be more in the realm of emotional abuse.
The bible commands you to love your wife and for your wife to obey you as her husband. Notice the first command is to the husband, to LOVE his wife if he does that the wife will obey out of respect for you. this authority you have isn't a Lordship over her but a lets walk side by side (rib from Adam given to Eve picturing side by side) I take that authority to mean you have the final say in important decisions in the home AFTER you have respectfully gotten her imput. That also doesn't mean there are not jobs the wife cannot do if she is more qualified to do them like the finances or whatever.
God doesn't LORD over us, he wants us to reverant him out of love and respect not because we are afraid of him. and pastors and husbands should act the same.
I don't think you have any idea what God wants.
Luke 12:5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.
You ought to submit to your husband because you fear God.
let's see believers cannot be cast into hell.
so what does SUBMIT mean to you? can you give an example as I did?
The fear of the LORD is a profound love and deep respect for God
The fear of the LORD is simply taking God seriously, he keeps his promises and expects us to obey his commands.
The fear of the LORD is the attitude that results from knowing that God is watching my every action, weighing my every motive, and aware of my every thought.
The fear of the LORD means to love what God loves, and hate what he hates.
believers can be cast into hell, but thats a different thread. You gave an example of submit? If I have to clear everything with my wife before she 'submits' to it, it isn't submission.
Lets take a ferinstance... We'll use little Johnny as our stand-in.
Me 'Hey little Johnny, how bout you submit to us going to the park to play basketball'
Johnny 'Sure, I love to play basketball'
Is this submission? Maybe.
Me 'Hey little Johnny, how bout you submit to going to the icecream parlor for a sundae'
Johnny 'Gosh, I haven't had dinner yet but whatever you say'
Is this submission? Sure whatever.
Me 'Hey little Johnny, you better have the lawn mowed and raked before I get home from work'
Johnny 'Hey! Thats spiritual abuse! You can't make me do something I don't want to do'
This certainly isn't submission.
Submission is being obedient to the authority that God has placed over you, even when you don't like it.
Hebrews 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.
I assume you have a husband. He will have to give account for you at the judgment seat of Christ. Paul says if you give him grief over his responsibility toward God to be your spiritual head, that it is not profitable for you.
No they can't, so you believe you can lose your salvation? I never said you have to "clear" everything with her I said you should be able to GET HER IMPUT on any given matter.
Your example would have been much better if you had use one pertaining to your WIFE not your SON. so now you are saying children are on the same level as your equal-your wife?