Spiritual life without Spiritual Union?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by The Biblicist, Jun 13, 2012.

  1. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    Here is my premise:

    1. God is a Spirit
    2. Spiritual life is in God
    3. spiritual Separation from God is spiritual death

    QUESTIONS:

    Can any human being be spiritually separated from God and have spiritual life?

    Is there such a thing as eternal life without spiritual union with God?
     
  2. Moriah

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    For some reason my reply posted twice. Please excuse it.
     
  3. Moriah

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    Are you going to keep teaching us, when you cannot even thank someone for explaining Old Covenant and New Covenant to you?
     
  4. Yeshua1

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    can the lord NOT hold our sins against us, can He remit them and not see us guilty by the Cross of Christ without having us be Holy Spirit sealed/infilled, new natured?

    As the Lord dealt with his OT peoples similiar to how he deals with babies/infants...

    The Cross paid for those sins, and though they did NOT get new natures, infilled by the HS, God did not HOLD that against them, but saved them by choicing to effectual apply the Grace from the Cross to their account!

    So would say that under the ne wCovenant, must be in spiritual union, having new natures/infilling of the Holy Spirit, save for exclusive cases such infants/babies, OT believers!
     
  5. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    Just answer the questions.
     
  6. The Biblicist

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    :laugh::laugh::laugh:
     
  7. Yeshua1

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    Already did!

    Under the Old covenant, their sins were remitted, not held against them, but NOT in spiritual union in same fashion we are now under new Covenant!

    from time of Christ forward, ALl saved are in spiritual union with Christ, and THAT happened at the moment Chrsit was rceived by faith, and the Holy Spirit came in us to seal us in Him!
     
  8. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
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    Yes Legally, because all the Elect have a Eternal Union with Christ legally, before they do experientially !

    Their Eternal Life was always in Him Jn 1:4

    4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

    1 Jn 1:2

    For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us )

    1 Jn 5:11

    11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

    And Legally and by Divine Purpose they have always been in the Son ! Eph 1:4

    According as he hath chosen us in him[The Son] before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
     
  9. The Biblicist

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    No you have not! You simply asked more questions and gave your personal opinion on everything but the questions I asked.

    Please give a yes or no answer to my questions
     
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    since the time of Christ, and now under the new Covenant era, ALl saved peples are in spiritual union with jesus, and that happened moment believed in Him, as we immediately received ou new natures and the presense of the holy spirit in us!
     
  11. The Biblicist

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    Again you refuse to answer the question directly and specifically. Is it because such an answer is so self-contradictory that you are ashamed to give specific answers to specific questions?

    Let's try again.

    Do you agree with the statements in the premise?

    1. Do you agree that God is spirit? Yes or No?

    2. Do you agree that spiritual life is in God alone? Yes or No?

    3. Do you agree that spiritual separation from God is spiritual death?


    Now for the direct questions:

    1. Can anyone be SPIRITUALLY SEPARATED from God and have SPIRITUAL LIFE? Yes or No?

    2. Is there such a thing as SPIRITUAL ETERNAL LIFE without Spiritual union with God? Yes or No?
     
  12. Yeshua1

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    there would be 2 different sets of answers here, depending IF addressing those under either old or the new Covenants!
     
  13. The Biblicist

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    There was never any salvation under the Old Covenant. The law justified no flesh! The only salvation ever provided by God was through the blood of the "everlasting" covenant - Heb. 13:20.
     
  14. billwald

    billwald
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    >>Is there such a thing as eternal life without spiritual union with God?

    >Yes Legally, because all the Elect have a Eternal Union with Christ legally, before they do experientially !

    GREAT ANSWER!


    >There was never any salvation under the Old Covenant. The law justified no flesh! The only salvation ever provided by God was through the blood of the "everlasting" covenant - Heb. 13:20

    Moses and Abraham are in Hell? This error is produced by "linear" thinking. God acts outside of linear time.
     
  15. The Biblicist

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    BAD ANSWER! The subject is "SPIRITUAL" union and therefore the life in question is "SPIRITUAL" eternal life and no "legal" foresenic act of God conveys SPIRITUAL eternal life as that comes only by direct union with God the Holy Spirit.
     
  16. Yeshua1

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    God DID not hold their sins commited against them under Old covenant, as he credite their account by basis of coming Messiah, but did NOT grant them new natures and the HS as we have it now!
     
  17. The Biblicist

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    All you can do is repeat YOUR OPINION. You NEVER deal with the scriptures I provide that proves YOUR OPINION is wrong.

    You have attempted to say that the Old Testament scriptures that allued to the new birth - circumcise your hearts refer to the future not the present. I have presented Bibical evidence, Biblical texts to PROVE that is a false assertion. You have never responded except to repeat your unsupported OPINION. Your opinion is simply wrong IF the Bible is the final authority of right and wrong!
     
  18. Yeshua1

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    Did the Holy Spirit indwell ALL OT believers, or did He merely come upon "certain" persons?

    did OT believers ALL have a personal relationship as we do, direct access to God, or did they HAVE to have sacrices and priests intercede before God on their behalf?

    You HAVE to see that there was a BIG difference change between Old and New as regards to just HOW God was in relationship with us!
     
    #18 Yeshua1, Jun 14, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 14, 2012
  19. The Biblicist

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    Every single person the Holy Spirit did not indwell were "NONE OF HIS" - Rom. 8:9

    Look at the record prior to Moses! Every single person went directly to God (Abel, Seth, Noah, Job, Abraham, Joseph, etc.).

    You are failling to see that the OLD COVENANT administration established under Moses was by design a PICTORIAL "shadow" teaching instrument. However, the PERSONAL relationship between actual believers within and outside of Israel was direct and personal with God (Acts 10:43; Heb. 4:2) as illustrated by Moses, Caleb, Joshua, David, etc. READ THE PSALMS which provides the PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP between David and God.
     
  20. Yeshua1

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    They could not be as we now are, as the Messiah had NOT died yet, and they HD no personal means to God apart from animal sacrifces and the priests!

    Do you beleive 'normal" believers could approach God as we now are able to, theu the High priest Jesus?
     

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