"Spiritual Presence" in Communion?

Discussion in 'Baptist History' started by Rev. G, Oct 21, 2002.

  1. Rev. G

    Rev. G
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    Do you believe that the Second London Baptist Confession of Faith (1689) teaches that Christ is "spiritually present" in communion (the Lord's Supper)?
     
  2. rsr

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    Yes.

    The trickier question is whether the "real presence" of Christ is at Communion. Baptists, I think, have leaned more toward the earlier Zwinglian conception of Communion than toward the Calvinistic understanding.

    http://bonaire.1stbaptist.org/communionpaper.htm
     
  3. Johnv

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    I believe that Christ is literally present in communion. For me to try to elaborate is like trying to explain why the phone always rings when you're in the shower.

    You can't really explain it. It just is. [​IMG]
     
  4. Ben W

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    No. Most Australian churches supply a thimble full of grape juice and some broken up crackers. This type of communion is symbolic of what Jesus has done for us. He is not in the communion. He is however omnipresent so he is in everything in the past, now and in the future.

    There could be some truth in the idea that a communion meeting should be in place of the passover festival once a year. Jesus and the disciples had gathered for the passover. and Jesus said this is the New Covenant (Mk 14:24)

    I take it to mean that the new covenant supersedes the passover?
     
  5. Aaron

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    Yes, by faith, He is present.
     
  6. Caretaker

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    Main Entry: tran·sub·stan·ti·a·tion
    Pronunciation: -"stan(t)-shE-'A-sh&n
    Function: noun
    Date: 14th century
    1 : an act or instance of transubstantiating or being transubstantiated
    2 : the miraculous change by which according to Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox dogma the eucharistic elements at their consecration become the body and blood of Christ while keeping only the appearances of bread and wine

    I reject the literal transubstantiation of the bread and the wine/grape juice to become the literal body and blood of our Lord, no more than the bread and wine became His literal physical body and blood at the last supper.

    My precious Lord is absolutely present within the believer as they do this in remembrance of Me, as the Lord is present at the believer's baptism, and present in the prayers of the believer, and as He is within the believer from the point at which they receive Him.

    I feel the most important aspect is not to come to His table, unworthily. We should spend time with Him in prayer, and yeilding to Him. We should approach His table with fear,(reverential awe), and with all honor for Him in our hearts. We do this to honor our Lord and our God, and this is a most sacred and holy time with Him. This is one of the times when the believer is closest in purpose, dedication, practice, to the perfect will of God.

    This is just my humble opinion and how I personally approach His table, and have approached His table for so many years. May God so bless His precious children
     
  7. Dr. Bob

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    I am genuinely speechless. I have never met a Baptist who held to either the catholic or lutheran positions.

    Guess my fundamentalist roots are showing. I cannot understand what would bring a person to such a position that the ordinance of the Lord's Supper is anything OTHER than a picture, a symbol.

    May I ask, is the Lord present in the water when you are dipped? I know the cop out - He is present everywhere. But we all know what is being said here - that Jesus is ACTUALLY THERE in/with/by (depending on how catholic) at communion . . so same holds true with baptism?

    This is more than bothersome. This is a BAPTIST ONLY discussion, right?
     
  8. Kiffin

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    Dr. Bob,

    I know of no one here that has espoused what you just said. The Spiritual presence that the Second London is referring to is generally referred to as the Reformed or Calvinist view and also has been held by the Church of England historically. It is very differant from the Lutheran or the Catholic view which teaches a physical presence. It also teaches and is very important to remember, it is by FAITH we feed on Christ at the Supper not a literal feeding.

    Certaintly Christ is present and we feed on Him spiritually by faith as we remember His Death for us. That is the historic Baptist position and was also even held by the Anabaptists. To teach "The Real Absence" in the Lord's Supper is to make it nothing more than a funeral service. The idea of no presence at the Supper is not even a Zwinglian idea in that all churches held that Jesus was present until the Charles Finney revivals de emphasized both baptism and the Lord's Supper.
     
  9. rsr

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    Yes, that has been the historic Baptist position, and it has nothing to do with transubstantion or consubstantiation.

    The Philadelphia Confession, 1742:

     
  10. Sularis

    Sularis
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    Consubstantiation - all the way

    Im sorry but God doesnt usually go around smacking people dead for defiling a picture of something

    Our physical bodies as they are will never see heaven - but Paul insists on physical purity

    Only Americans overreact that much when they see someone doing things to their flag - although I understand the sentiment.
     
  11. Ben W

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    Theologically, when God is with us at communion, it is through His Holy Spirit, not in the person of Jesus. The Holy Spirit is not in the Crackers or Grape juice, he is Comforting and leading you to Jesus and the Father.

    Hopefully communion reminds people of this.
     
  12. Dr. Bob

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    Still speechless. Guess I have never even been exposed to that kind of thinking among Baptists.

    And I must be obtuse, because I see a change of words but STILL the same wrong teaching of a "presence" (spiritual, physical makes NO difference) in these elements.

    Need some more help. Smaller words? Tanks! [​IMG]
     
  13. Mrs KJV

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    No,
    If we did we would be more Catholic than Baptist, then we would have to throw out Eternal Security. :(
     

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