Spiritual Warfare In A pyhsical World

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by poncho, Jul 20, 2004.

  1. poncho

    poncho
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    I would like to discuss my theory on spiritual warfare to see if there is any logic in my reasoning.

    But first I would like to ask one question.

    Is there anyone here that truely believes that the bible is the word of God and that salvation comes through the work of one man named Jesus Christ?
     
  2. Jim1999

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    If the Bible is not the word of God, then we have a lot of historical characters who are down and out liars, including the man, Christ Jesus.

    Yes, I dare to believe that salvation is not possible aside from the finished work of this same Jesus Christ on the cross of Calvary.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  3. poncho

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    Thank you Jim for answering my question so politely. Thought I would get booted from the board for asking. I do have a point I am trying to make. So, I will ask my next question in the form of a challenge.

    Can you prove what you believe?
     
  4. Jim1999

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    Hi Poncho, I think I know where you are heading.

    If I can work backwards, I can develop empiracal evidence for these facts. Empirical means evidence based on observation rather than a theory.

    The observation is that Jesus died according to historical evidence. Not only the Bible's record, but also historians such as the Jewish Josephus, and Roman records.

    Since Jesus actualy lived and died in that time period, and someone died by crucifixion, why not this same Jesus? Then we visit the tomb. The tomb was not a common burial place, but a privately owned tomb. The entrance was closed by a huge wheel with a flat bottom. Once rolled into place, it was next to impossible to move.

    When the women came to the tomb, which had been guarded all night by Roman soldiers, whose lives were at stake if anythihng should embarrass Rome, and the body of this Jesus was gone! (1) Had the soldiers taken the body, they would have been killed. If the Jews had taken the body, they would have exposed the Christian claims as soon as those claims were made. If the Christians had stole the body, the Roman soldiers would have prevented it; the Jews were certainly observing the site, and once pressure came upon the Christians, someone would leak the truth. So, the question remains, Who rolled the stone? And, who took the body? The only logical conclusion is the biblical story that Jesus rose again.

    Time and time again, the fact of the existence of biblical records has been proven. Not whether they are true or false, but their existence. We can use the same empirical evidence to establish the veracity of scripture.

    We then use a combination of this empirical evidence and our own moral and soul experience of the gospel to ascertain the veracity of the word. How else can we explain the "born again" experience? A psychological change? We would deceive ourselves at best.

    I am going to stop at this point.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  5. poncho

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    Yes Jim I do believe you may have guessed where I am going with my questioning... ;)

    My point is...I think...that to a certain percentage, maybe the majority of the inhabitants of this planet we who would believe such a thing have fallen prey to an unprovable grand conspiracy theory. So, we are to the world..."conspiracy theorists" and scorned for our belief.

    Just wanted to get that "objection" out of the way before I continued with my theory on spiritual warfare. We're all in the same catagory now.

    Anyway, here we go.

    I have read quite a few books and watched more than a few movies on warfare. Thats where my next statement comes from..."the first rule of warfare is know thine enemy" I don't know who first said it or if indeed it was ever muttered out loud, but it would seem to make sense that it would be wise to study your opponent.

    First we have to identify our enemy then...

    To find out his ideology, goals, weapons and tactics, weaknesses and whatever else is knowable about him.

    As Christians we pretty much agree who our enemy is. Satan.

    What are his main objectives?
     
  6. blackbird

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    Deception and disruption! Mainly!

    Back in WW2--the Germans initiated a plan called "Operation Griffin"----they combed through the German Army looking for Germans who best looked, acted, and sounded like Americans---had to speak English---complete with American accents---got their hands on American equipment any way they could--trucks, jeeps, canteens, American watches, rifles, pistols, etc.

    The impostors infiltrated American lines---giving false information, disrupting communications, changing road signs in France, printing falsified maps and code names, infiltrated the mail system.

    At the worst part----Americans grew to the point where noone could be trusted---not even the buddy with they in the fox hole---nobody!

    How did Intelligences "crack" the infiltrators??

    They began issuing daily code words----words that only Americans would know---everyone was questioned----questions like "Who is Mickey Mouse's girlfriend??" If you answered it wrong---or couldn't answer at all---you were arrested!

    An MP at a check point had General Omar Bradley detained under armed watch---because the MP asked the question---"Whats the capital of Illinois?" Bradley answered---Springfield! The MP thought it was Chicago!

    Check points along the road---cleared people by listening for accents----they would ask the person in question something like---"Pronounce the word, "Rumplestiltskin"---and they would listen for the "Rolled r's" and the vowels that got cut short and the consinents that were extended---giving away the idea that "Hey, this guy might not be American!"

    So---the devil will infiltrate---he will deceive and disrupt! How do you catch him?? Like those MP's at the check points there at Operation Griffin----You ask questions that only a Christian can answer correctly----you listen to their accents----do they sound like they live in Heaven----on and on!!
     
  7. Artimaeus

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    The concept is solid but how does it play out in a practical sense? What kind of questions would only a Christian know? People aren't our enemy (we're trying to rescue them) but they "house" the enemy. So, how do we attack the enemy without attacking people?
     
  8. HankD

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    Yes and yes.

    HankD
     
  9. HankD

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    No.

    HankD
     
  10. Marcia

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    Yes!

    I deal with spiritual warfare issues all the time in my ministry. Most of theh spiritual warfare teachings out there are wackky and unbiblical. In fact, their methods approximate the tactics of occult teachings (I was actually told by a believer one time that she had been told by a Christian that throwing salt around your house would keep out evil spirits. . . now, where did I put those garlic necklaces?).

    I question the tactic of "know thine enemy" in the sense of focusing on Satan and demons. What we know about them comes through the Bible and that is all we need to know. Satan is tricky, deceptive, opposed to God, wants worship, counterfeits the truth, plants false teachings, likes to use our weaknesses to tempt and/or disrupt us, etc. These are good things to know, but we can't go beyond that as far as knowing our enemy.

    I am not implying you are going off into one of these strange directions, but that is almost 100% of what I have to deal with in my ministry. I hardly ever hear a Christian say that spiritual warfare is reading God's word, prayer, being in fellowship with God, walking daily with Christ, resisting temptation, etc., which are the Biblical weapons of spiritual warfare.
     
  11. poncho

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    Marcia,

    I agree with you. I wasn't goin to try and give out any advice on how to defeat the devil or any kind of charms to wear around our necks. [​IMG]

    Blackbird brought up deception and disruption. I would only add misdirection to that at this time.

    I get the idea that our enemy will use any tool or weapon that he can and stop at nothing to reach his goal. I believe a big part of his plan has always included the use of men to spread deception and misdirection to hide his tracks and to fool us to look in a direction other than where he is doing his work.

    I have been laughed at numerous times for even uttering the word "illuminati". But, how much do we have to stretch out our limited imagination is to think that the enemy would use just such a tool?

    He wants worship, that has been said here. Please explain to me why he would not assemble a group of men that were willing or duped into believing him and place them in "the choice seats of the high places of the world" in order to consolidate his spiritual power in a physical condition to carry out his will in the earthly realm.

    He plans to carry out the deception of the world, if I understand correctly. This is a lofty goal to say the least. How could this be carried out in this so called modern world?

    Wouldn't it make sense then for him to seek control of all the information we see and hear?

    How could this be done if not using the very same men that may worship him that he may have set in the high places? Would he use common men to do this...to some point probably, but, it seems to me that it would much more effective to use the richest most powerful men on the planet...the top 2 or 3 percent.

    Then comes the misdirection. Keep us looking somewhere else. What a crazy idea for us to believe that this could be the case.
     
  12. LadyEagle

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    Ephesians 6:[12] For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

    [13] Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

    Matthew4:[8] Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
    [9] And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
     
  13. poncho

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    Can we see this consolidation of power to deceive the masses through corporate monopolies of the media and the military contractors? He does plan on waging an all out war against Christ doesn't he?

    Seems he would need a steady flow of propganda and the weapons to wage this future war.

    Logistics. The supply chain. A vulnerable spot?
     
  14. Marcia

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    I don't buy into the Illuminati thing or any conspiracy theories because Satan doesn't need those to deceive. The New Age has already been inflitrating the church and I believe a New Age/Christian syncretization is happening. This is one way deception is going on. Seeking experiences and subjective evaluations of "hearing God" (coming through the contemplative prayer movement) is in the evangelical church. These techniques appeal to the flesh and we tend to like that.

    The other could be with false signs and miracles. Christians become so enraptured by miracles that they are listening to the false teachings going along with them. This is another way.

    The denial of hell, open theism, and inclusivism are creeping in the church through scholars, writers and seminaries. This is another way.

    Satan doesn't need to gather a group of men or leaders to deceive us. In fact, I think it's more effective the way he's doing it now.
     
  15. Marcia

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    More:
    In fact, I believe the conspiracy theories are ways to distract us from the deceptions that are going on.
     
  16. LadyEagle

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    Maybe it's all of the above.
     
  17. poncho

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    Deny the enemy cover...I've been workin on that...in case no one has noticed. :D
     
  18. poncho

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    Marcia, I think that would be misdirection. He may not need it, but, he may use it, but then again...the use of bloodlines seems important. Isn't the "anti-christ" supposed to be from the line of David?
     
  19. Marcia

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    There is no evidence for conspiracy theories. I find them ridiculous. People spend so much time wondering and worrying about them when they could be using that time for Christ. Isn't there a verse about the days being short and redeeming the time? We should be good stewards of our time.
    I don't even like taking the 3 minutes it is taking me to type this to say conspiracy theories are ridiculous. I feel pretty much the same way about theories speculating on the end times.

    I know of no verse about the anti-christ being from the line of David. Which brings up an interesting point -- First John actually talks about many anti-Chirsts. It says that many anti-christs are out in the world. An anti-christ is just someone who denies the Christ. Revelation talks about the dragon, the beast and the false prophet -- there is no antichrist in Revelation, I believe.
     
  20. poncho

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    "There is no evidence of conspiracy theories."

    Marcia, do you mean proof? There is a mountain of evidence.

    What is proof? Something written on paper, or a video image, or maybe an eyewitness account?

    All of which can be spun in whatever direction someone feels appropriate to convince someone elses mind of something other than what that person believes to be true.

    Where is the proof that Jesus is the son of God? There is no proof only evidence, and that evidence has been and will continue to be spun in every direction.

    Waste of time to look at the evidence? Maybe, maybe not.


    Just because something is not seen does not mean it doesn't exist. You and I may both believe that angels and demons exist but, so far I have not seen one or even heard of any proof that would lead me to believe that they are real. My belief is based on faith same as my belief that Jesus is the son of God and has entered my heart, because I believed the stories in the bible and made the decision to ask Him in. Not from any proof.

    Proof therefore, (IMHO) is based on evidence and faith.
     

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