Hey all, I have now read many R.C. Sproul works and each time I read him find an issue that sounds foreign to scripture. This past week I have been reading his "The Holiness of God." And last night I came across a proposition that I can't believe that "doctrine of grace" people swallow. Sproul says that every unregenerate man HATES God -- that we each individually would have killed Christ ourselves knowing that He was God! He titles the chapter "God in the Hands of Angry Sinners!" "If God were to expose His life to our hands, He would not last one second. We would not ignore Him; we would destroy Him." says Sproul. (p181 pp 2) This is patently NOT true. In Jesus own day, there were many who flocked to Him for healing and teaching. And those that didn't come were happy enough to live their lives ignoring Him. But such is the imagery Sproul has to set up to sell his theology. Did you hate God before you were saved? Does the lost person not, rather, often call on or seek out God from the midst of his/her "crises?" I am truly ashamed that Sproul has to use such imagery as hate/bigotry and "dead people" (below) to conceal the way to salvation and to discredit Evangelicals. Even from my own experience this is not true. Evangelicals teach that man has a "god-shaped hole" that he tries to fill and thereby quite often he comes up with a god or The God. Truly, I did not hate God ever. I got mad at Him, I confess. I got frustrated at not hearing from Him if He was there. But you know what it boils down to for Sproul? That we have to have a change of heart (true) -- be born again -- and we would never choose Christ and receive it. So God's Spirit comes in indwelling us and suddenly we love God, not hate Him, and can see/enter His kingdom.* And here's what Sproul says about that "Semi-Peleganism ["most Evangelicals"] ... salutes the holiness of God and ... believes in God's sovereignty, [but] it still entertains delusions about our ability to incline ourselves to God, to make 'decisions' to be born again. It declares that fallen people ... can be persuaded to be reconciled even before their sinful hearts are changed. ... Christ made it clear that dead people cannot choose anything ... and that we must be born of the Spirit." (p182 pp 3) For me, this simply shows that Sproul (and Cavlinists) do not know how to be born again. Yes, it involves the change of "heart"/spirit. NO that does NOT mean that the Spirit indwells regenerating us before we believe -- before we have made a believing response to the gospel. And NO, we don't "see" or "enter" the kingdom before we believe, either. 1Pet 1:23 makes it very clear as 1-2-3 -- "Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." God's Spirit or "mind" is IN the word and able to penetrate our heart (mind, emotions, and will) from outside. We don't "see" the whole kingdom but we see Christ (God does NOT reveal His "kingdom" to the unrepentant, 1Cor 2:7-8, 14, but to the "perfect"/saved, 2:6! With just that "incorruptible seed," scripture says we can be born again of the Spirit. But it is rebirth (the seed germinated in your heart) -- then repentance and reception of the truth -- then regeneration/rebirth and faith. Look at 1Cor 2:1-5 again. ALL Paul preached to the Corinthians at first was the gospel ("For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified."). It was predicated upon their salvation that he now could write them revealing the hidden wisdom of God's kingdom, 2:6-16! But Sproul would basically have is to believe that if we can understand the preacher ("see" the kingdom), we are "indwelt" and "elect" (= saved) already. Now we can begin the works of salvation just as if God had chosen us to be "elect." Well, God did it that way with Israel and look what became of it --- the whole kingdom was taken away from them and given to "them who were not a nation" because they didn't choose God! Simple gospel: Hear -- believe -- repent and receive -- saved/regenerated (1Cor 15:1-4) skypair *Earlier in the same book, Sproul tells us that when he it dawned on him in during philosophy class that God was the Creator, "it was like being born again a second time." So basically, are we to understand that being born again is merely a "day of discovery" to Sproul? Well, scripturally that is part of it but not all of it.