St. Isadores Parish

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Brother Adam, Feb 15, 2004.

  1. Brother Adam

    Brother Adam
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    I posted this on another message board, but figured I'd go ahead and post it here too. Please save any bashing ;) :eek:

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    My wife and I returned from a visit to 10:30 am Mass at St. Isadores Catholic Church here in Grand Rapids, MI.

    I found this church much more inviting than the Church I was raised in (St. Alphonus) even though we weren't greeted by anyone. The demenor of the whole church was just different for some reason.

    When we walked through the doors to the sanctuary was like walking through time. And being part of a liturgical worship service is always a blessing. My wife commented after the service "You are right about one thing Adam, you definitely get alot more out of a liturgical service then a non-liturgical one. In a Baptist service things seem rushed".

    There were two priests leading the service. The one question I have is that I noticed the priest did not break the host during the Eucharist. I know that isn't usually the norm in the Mass, I was wondering if there were exceptions.

    Overall the whole experience was good though. I'll admit it was a little hard to hear in the back with all of the children around us. I also appreciated the great amount of diversity, there was no "dominant" ethnic backround in the church.

    I also discovered something protestant Churches have been doing wrong all along- in the pews they have these little clasps that you can clip your bulliten too so you don't have to hold it all the time. Sweet. :D

    There was a complete lack of people worshipping Mary, which Catholic Churches are so often accused off. However the mention of the "Savior Jesus Christ" happened over and over, and the Gospel Message was proclaimed! Awesome!
     
  2. gb93433

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    If you prefer there are Baptist churches that have liturgical services.

    However growing up in a church that did I can tell you thatmany of the people sought to repaat the saying as fast as they could so they could get through it. Personally I like to go and listen more than just get up and down and say repeat after me phrases.
     
  3. Brother Adam

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    Yes, I know there are liturgical Baptist churches. That is the type of Church I would like to eventually pastor at.

    There may have been folks like that, but it is up to each of us personally to respond appropriately at worship. There are people who sleep through more reformed services.
     
  4. Gina B

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    The first time going anywhere you want to be is pretty neat. It's new, it's exciting, you pay attention.
    The first time I went to an LDS service I loved it. It was so calm and peaceful. I loved that there was no one person preaching, people were called upon to come up and share a message. Some of the worship songs were ones I was familiar with and had sung in protestant services, and at that particular service I didn't meet anyone who appeared to be worshipping Joseph Smith.
    Looking back now though...

    PROV 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

    PROV 16:25 There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

    Gina
     
  5. Carson Weber

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    Adam,

    Very cool.

    Not only that, but you saw Jesus! [​IMG]
     
  6. Brother Adam

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    Gina,

    I would expect nothing else from you ;)

    I was raised Catholic until I was 8, Lutheran until I was 18. It's nothing "new" to me.

    God Bless,

    Adam
     
  7. dianetavegia

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    Adam, I'm sorry to hear you're being swayed. First RCC, next Lutheran, then Baptist even tho, and I quote you here "Though I belong to a Baptist church I do not consider myself a Baptist" and now back to the RCC.

    Diane
     
  8. Gina B

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    Ah, ok. I assumed since you were posting about it it must have been a new experience. (and I personally think the thing wrong with protestant churches is the lack of padding to kneel on, but I'll cut you slack on that one at least)
    GIna
     
  9. Carson Weber

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    I suggest The Mass of the Early Christians by Mike Aquilina (a co-worker of mine), for anyone interested in the worship of the Early Church:

    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0879739428/qid=1076897584/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-2059485-1079030?v=glance&s=books

    _____

    July 12, 2003
    Reviewer: labarum from Philadelphia, PA

    Among the most important developments for the Church in the last decade has been the rediscovery of the liturgical forms of the ancient Christianity. While much of the worship of Protestant Evangelicalism has become increasingly trite by appropriating the ethos of the popular culture, there has been a counter movement to find a more authentic worship by studying patterns of the early Church. This examination has been an enlightening experience to many thoughtful Evangelicals as they came to realize their own worship styles were of fairly recent vintage. Even more shocking, the worship of the early Church was liturgical in form, Catholic in outlook, and centered upon the Eucharist. As a result, many have either left the Evangelical movement for the historic Churches or sounded a call to return to more traditional patterns of worship within their own traditions.

    The final piece of the puzzle is for those in the liturgical Churches to realize the treasures in their own midst and correct abuses that have detrimentally affected their own worship traditions. For those in the Roman Catholic Church who are unfamiliar with the history of early Christian worship, there may be no better starting point than The Mass of the Early Christians by Mike Aquilina. Written for a general audience, Aquilina manages to tie together liturgical styles from disparate sources of the early Church as they reflected on the Mystery of the Holy Eucharist. Although the book is primarily aimed at Roman Catholics, all Christians from liturgical traditions can read this book with profit and find comfort in the firm historical basis of their own worship. Those who have shunned liturgical worship might after reading this book reconsider their position and wonder what they have been missing. At no point does Aquilina force the Roman Catholic position but to his credit allows the ancient Church to speak for itself.

    The first section of the book is a description of the origin and early development of the worship of the Church. Aquilina carefully examines the Jewish roots of the Mass and how the liturgy of the Church is a development of the ancient Jewish worship with the focus now placed on Jesus Christ as the fulfillment of the Old Covenant and the establishment by Jesus of a new and everlasting covenant. The exposition of the Eucharist doctrine and liturgical forms used in the early Church is among the best introductory treatments of the subject as the reader is skillfully brought into contact with the thought of the early Church. After careful consideration of the discussion, readers who have had little exposure to the historical evidence may now see the worship of the Church with new eyes.

    In the second part of the book, Aquilina provides primary evidence from the patristic period to support the veracity of his earlier exposition. Of particular interest are liturgical texts used in the early Church. It might be claimed the statements of certain patristic writers are not necessarily representative of the Church as a whole, but when the same themes are echoed in distinct liturgies used in areas separated by great distances, the weakness of this argument is exposed. If one belongs does not worship as the early Church worshipped and does not pray as the early Church prayed, it is also likely they do not believe what the early Church believed.

    The book concludes with a fictional reconstruction by Aquilina of what it was probably like to worship in the early Church. This approach is quite compelling as the hard historical evidence provided earlier in the book is fleshed out in this hypothetical account of a Christian family at worship.

    Many Christians from traditions not sympathetic to formal liturgy are now taking the historical witness of the early Church seriously. As a basic introduction to the richness of early Christian liturgy, The Mass of the Early Christians is a fine starting point. It is an inspiring account of the patristic mass that calls to the Church, as in the liturgy itself, to "lift up your hearts."
    _____
     
  10. Brother Adam

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    We have padding at our Church. Tee-hee :D
     
  11. Ps104_33

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    Adam, you sound like a very mixed up individual. You seem to bounce around and carried away with "every wind of doctrine". You need to settle down. Time is short.
     
  12. dianetavegia

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    Amen, Psalms 104!

    Rev. 3:15 I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. 16 So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth.
     
  13. Brother Adam

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    I was born into the RCC Church and my mom took me to the Lutheran Church when she married my stepdad when I was young. Not much a choice there. Want the rest of the story? It took me three years to convert to the Baptist faith, and I did it kicking and screaming. Eventually after being around Baptists for a long time and studying enough, one emotional night on a missions trip, I decided to reject my first baptism and get baptized again in the Baptist Church.

    I happen to "respect my neighbors" and thier faith. Shame on me! Learning is always good. Yep, I laid down my hateful biggoted anti-Catholic education on what Catholics believe for the true version of what they believe. And understanding that and helping them in helping teach others doesn't make me "swayed" only a better Baptist Christian.

    Hi Psalm,

    If it makes you feel better about yourself to consider me a "very mixed up individual", that's okay with me. Just don't "teach" others that I am a very mixed up induvidual, because you would be decieving them.

    What is it about Catholicism that scares you, Psalm? Let's talk about it. There are many things about Catholicism that bother me, but alas, I continue to study because I have a firm foundation in Christ through faith in Him. [​IMG]

    Would it bother you too if I visited a mormon church? I've done that! Or how about a Muslim Mosque? Or a Buddhist Temple? Been there, done that. I have nothing to fear by visiting and learning.

    Being swayed by every doctrine? Naw. Don't think so. But being an American and Christian, your free to believe as you will.

    Bro. Adam
     
  14. JustAsIAm

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    Sounds like an interesting experience. Coming from the Northeast, things are the opposite here. I dated a catholic boy in college whos mother would always ask him about the readings in church. He knew which churches in the area had the fastest masses, and went to those. He found one that went just over 30 min. The priest talked faster than anyone I've ever seen!
    Up here anyway, there is no such thing as a quick Baptist service. We start at 9:30 and are never out before 12:30 pm. Guess it matters which part of the country you are in!
     
  15. Brother Adam

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    Thank you for the insight, JustasIAM
     
  16. CatholicConvert

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    Adam, you sound like a very mixed up individual. You seem to bounce around and carried away with "every wind of doctrine". You need to settle down. Time is short.

    Psalms --

    Think about it. Anyone who really really is interested in TRUTH, to the point of serious investigation, Bible study, and other reading, would have to be confused by the plethora of various denominations out there all claiming to be "the truth"

    The only way one would not be confused would be to pick one voice, shut out all the others, and constantly insist that you have chosen the truth.

    Brother Ed
     
  17. Singer

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    Right! That's called listening to God through the inspired word of God. For me it means shutting out all churches. They are only gatherings of believers and they all seem to cook up their own "truth" and then promote it as "the truth" which they suppose comes from the "one true church".

    :rolleyes:
    Sad....sad

    Singer
     
  18. GraceSaves

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    Amazing. Singer, you decided to focus on Brother Ed instead of Adam! [​IMG] Who could have predicted that?
     
  19. Brother Adam

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    Why would he focus on me? He didn't make either of the previous posts that I responded to. The point to the thread really wasn't to argue either....and we know that is what Bob does best :D
     
  20. dumbox1

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    Brother Adam,

    If it's an older church like ours, those clips may originally have been intended to hold men's hats (back in the days when men wore hats).

    Mark
     

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