Staff Ethics Question

Discussion in 'Pastoral Ministries' started by PastorBrad, Mar 3, 2006.

  1. PastorBrad

    PastorBrad
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2005
    Messages:
    28
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am pastor of a church who has just learned that we have received a letter from the IRS that an Interim minister on staff has been dodging the IRS and owes taxes for 2004. They sent a levee or garnishment letter to our church! I have had many problems with this staff and have been trying to remove him for 9 months. He is an interim youth pastor but not called to do youth and basically wants to be the pastor of the church I am at. Is this grounds for termination?
     
  2. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2005
    Messages:
    9,454
    Likes Received:
    0
    The Bible says the Bishop is to be above reproach 1 Timothy 3.

    I would say that this does bring a reproach not only on the interim, but on the church as well.

    While the scripture tells us not to rebuke an elder, but rather entreat him, I would say this is enough to ask him to voluntarily step down.

    Matthew tells us if we have anything against a brother we are to go to that brother. If he will not hear us, we are to take another. If he still will not hear, take it before the church.
     
  3. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,402
    Likes Received:
    12
    While the one-to-one approach is good, the matter now NEEDS to go to the CHURCH BODY. We have had way too much "sweeping under the rug" this kind of wrong conduct.

    We think we are doing the person a favor and keeping the church from airing dirty laundry in public. But the damning effects of hiding sin are far worse.

    This is not a "little" matter of a "private" issue that one can appeal to Mt 18. It is a character issue of the greatest magnitude and now public. And should be dealt with before this Sunday. Not joking.
     
  4. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2005
    Messages:
    9,454
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dr Bob,

    I would agree. PastorBrad stated that he had already been trying to remove this man for the last 9 months. I would say it is time for the church body to show him the door.

    There is no sign of the man being a man above reproach ( a qualification for a Bishop/Pastor/Elder, nor is there a sign that he is a faithful steward.

    Put such an one out from among you.
     
  5. PastorBrad

    PastorBrad
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2005
    Messages:
    28
    Likes Received:
    0
    Guys thanks so much. I am a young pastor in seminary and appreciate the input very much. I agree with you both I called the chairman of deacons to let him in and he is sleeping on it. What is the pastor's role on this situation of some of the leaders in the church don't want to remove him; which I think we should ASAP! Please give more input...thanks
     
  6. PastorSBC1303

    PastorSBC1303
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2003
    Messages:
    15,125
    Likes Received:
    0
    Brad, I agree with Dr. Bob's comments.

    If I was the pastor and some of the leaders did not want to remove him for this issue, I think I would be moving on to a new place of service.

    What seminary are you attending? MBTS?
     
  7. PastorBrad

    PastorBrad
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2005
    Messages:
    28
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes I am at MBTS; love it! I agree it is just difficult for me because I really love the church and the people. I have already removed one staff already for the same type stuff and am just a little gun shy I think. You know this ministry stuff is hard...
     
  8. PastorSBC1303

    PastorSBC1303
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2003
    Messages:
    15,125
    Likes Received:
    0
    Brad, yes these things are never easy.

    I graduated from MBTS with an MDiv in 2003.
     
  9. PastorBrad

    PastorBrad
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2005
    Messages:
    28
    Likes Received:
    0
    Great, where are you now pastor sbc?
    I pastor [edited to protect privacy of individual in the OP]

    How did you like MBTS?

    [ March 04, 2006, 04:04 AM: Message edited by: C4K ]
     
  10. gb93433

    gb93433
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    15,496
    Likes Received:
    6
    Just a few days ago it was reported that about 1/3 of the churches are not in compliance with the IRS too.

    I pastored one of those who would not listen to me until I was audited and cleared but the church was not. I filed my taxes correctly but the church did not file correctly as I tried to tell them for two years. Glad to be gone from there.

    Out of respect, talk with the man first. It is possible he has had some serious financial or health problems. Possibly things that nobody is aware of. I would try the soft approach first. Take someone that you and he trust who is an accountant or financially savvy with you.

    I could tell you about a lady who was in serious trouble financially many years ago. She is doing very very well today. When I saw that I tend to give people a litle more grace until I know otherwise. If they lie to me I will not give an inch but if they are trying to do the right thing then I am patient. When I lived in Texas years ago about 1/2 of the people in the church I attended lost their homes. They were not bad people just got caught in a bad situation.
     
  11. PastorSBC1303

    PastorSBC1303
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2003
    Messages:
    15,125
    Likes Received:
    0
    I loved it. I will PM you some other thoughts so that we do not hijack your own thread.
     
  12. PastorBrad

    PastorBrad
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2005
    Messages:
    28
    Likes Received:
    0
    There are no serious health problems or finanacial; for a fact I know this. In fact we cut him a check for $1300 in Dec...he owes the church $370 and also stiffed the seminary for $800 until he had to go back and "finish" his degree. Sorry, the soft approach has been tried. I disagree with your method based on his character and integrity.
     
  13. gb93433

    gb93433
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    15,496
    Likes Received:
    6
    It is hard in the business world to remove crooks and people who will not work. Life is easy when people do what they should and are faithful.
     
  14. PastorBrad

    PastorBrad
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2005
    Messages:
    28
    Likes Received:
    0
    Don't worry about hijacking thread I am looking for feedback here please.
     
  15. gb93433

    gb93433
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    15,496
    Likes Received:
    6
    If this is the case then it is time to give some tough love and require some action. It is time to hold him accountable for his actions. Most likely he has been doing this for a long time and will not learn until he is pressed into a corner. Too often people in the church will not hold people accountable. They are simply too nice to be effective and help someone. They are much like serving wine to an alcoholic.

    I would bet he is both lazy and greedy. I would not hesitate to confront him about that kind of beavior. He needs to be surounded by people who will hold him accountable. Do not let him handle one penny of money.

    It is time to tell him to pay up or get out of the church. The church is not a place for deadbeats to reside.
     
  16. PastorBrad

    PastorBrad
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2005
    Messages:
    28
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks for the posts guys!
     
  17. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2005
    Messages:
    9,454
    Likes Received:
    0
    Be blessed Brad.

    I will be in prayer for God to strengthen you in the direction you must go.

    Remember, God fights your battles for you. Rely on Him to lead you in the words to say to this interim pastor.
     
  18. jshurley04

    jshurley04
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2004
    Messages:
    554
    Likes Received:
    0
    I would strongly suggest contacting legal counsel such as the Christian Law Association. The purpose would be to make sure the church does not get it's self into a legal bind with the IRS. As well as to have them guide you in options as to what the church responsibility is to both the IRS and this staff member. What ever you do, do very carefully. The IRS has been the downfall of churches past and even more to come because churches think they are exempt from the rules laid out by the government.
     
  19. Karen

    Karen
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2000
    Messages:
    2,610
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am not a pastor.
    You say that you didn't like him before this happened.
    Make sure you find out what is really going on before assuming some things that are not so clear from the information presented here.

    You "know" he has no financial problems because 3 months ago he was paid $1300. OK.
    People can be levied by mistake. I once was.
    Even if not, you said it was 2004 taxes. Filing was 4/15/05. Automatic extension of filing was till 8/15/05.
    Other extensions possible till 10/15/05. That is not so long ago.

    Let's pose something slightly different. Say a pastor is not able to have health insurance, and ends up with a big emergency room bill he can't pay. And the hospital is impatient and takes steps. By your statements, you would remove him, thinking little of him in the process.

    I am surprised that some of your posts have not been edited on this thread. You have identified your church and basically told the world who this man is. I am troubled by that.

    In short, if in your shoes, I would get more information and try to look at it without preconceptions about this man's personality.

    Karen
     
  20. PastorBrad

    PastorBrad
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2005
    Messages:
    28
    Likes Received:
    0
    Glad your not a pastor Karen, but thanks for the comments!
     

Share This Page

Loading...