Study: Half of SBC pastors believe in 'prayer languages'

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by gb93433, Jun 5, 2007.

  1. gb93433

    gb93433
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    http://www.abpnews.com/www/2443.article

    Study: Half of SBC pastors believe in 'prayer languages'
    By Hannah Elliott
    Published: June 4, 2007

    NASHVILLE, Tenn. (ABP) -- Half of the senior pastors in the Southern Baptist Convention believe some people are granted a special, spiritual language for prayer, a recent survey has found.
     
  2. TBLADY

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    I'm reminded of the scripture where Jesus told his disciples when they asked him how should they pray and Jesus replied "DO NOT BABBLE ON LIKE THE PAGGANS DO"
    Matt 6:7

    No such GIFT as a private prayer language....ALL gifts were for the edification of the church...no such thing as a private gift. 1 Cor 12 all of..1 Peter 4:10-11, Eph 4:12, Romans 12:4-8

    Why would God give us something he in the first place DOESN'T need?

    Prayer like tithing is primarially for our benifit not Gods!
     
    #2 TBLADY, Jun 6, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 6, 2007
  3. donnA

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    I quite agree with you
     
  4. TBLADY

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    Thank you...I actually said something someone agrees with. :)
     
  5. gb93433

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    How does worship benefit God? How does anything we do benefit God? God does not need us. We need Him.

    I agree very much with most everything you said. However, maybe I am missing something. How does the gift of evangelism edify the body in a worship service? Evangelism is done outside of the church body and worship service.
     
  6. donnA

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    it happens ;)
     
  7. TBLADY

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    GB....I hope you looked up those verses on edification and spiritual gifts.

    Cause it is the BODY of Christ (meaning church) that is benifited not the building.

    When an evangilist witnesses and one gets saved and added to the body. And when an Evangilist is sent out to build other churches is that not edifying the BODY of Christ?

    Everyone who is a true believer is part of the body of Christ no matter where he lives. Which might be a shock to some denominations LOL
     
    #7 TBLADY, Jun 6, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 6, 2007
  8. Alcott

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    Study: Half of SBC pastors believe in 'prayer languages'

    What do the other half believe in?
     
  9. gb93433

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    The topic mentioned nothing that I see, which would pertain to Romans 12 but rather 1 Cor. 14.

    Perhaps I misunderstood you, but if you are going to compare the context of Romans 12 and 1 Cor 14 I do not see how what you wrote about gifts can apply to both contexts. One of worship and another of general instruction. One when the body meets and another when it does not. They are two different issues. I do not see how you can compare a worship context and the use of gifts in the body in a worship service then compare it to general instruction not in a worship service.

    Of course it benefits the body when someone comes to Christ. The body of Christ is not a building but a body. An evangelist's work is not done in the body but out from the body. Of course it will edify believers when someone comes to Christ but how does that edify the body when an evangelist's work is never done within the body. Once the evangelist has done their work and the person becomes a believer he begins the training process of being built up for the work of service.

    I take a different position that not all of the gifts are for the edification of the body in a worship service but all gifts are for the training and building up of the body. Those who have the gifts are to be training others to do the work of service. Some work is done within the body and some is not. The work of an evangelist is not to build up the body in a worship service such as a preacher in a service but rather to train the body for the work outside of the worship. An evangelist‛s work is not done in a worship service but outside of that context.
     
  10. Allan

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    Evangelism IS NOT a gift.

    An Evangelist, just like an Apostle, Prophet, Pastor/teacher is a gift (singular) to the church. There is no gift of evangelism just as there is no gift of pastor nor apostle nor prophet.

    But the reason for the gifts (tongues included) is spoke directly to - is in 1 Cor 12:7
    For the gifts of the Spirit are given to profit (benifit) EVERYONE.

    Gifts are not YOU, and NOT for self edification. That is what chapter 14 is all about and the express reason Paul prefaces the the later part of 12 as WE the body are gifted to impart to the rest of the body. AND THEN brings in Ch 13 on SELFLESS Love, or a love that is not concerned about me but YOU. And as 14 opens we see Paul rebuking them because he shows what they are doing is for self (between them and God) but Paul would rather they prophesy to the building up of each other. He THEN begins saying that 'he' would not speak in tongues IN THE CHURCH unless (1) He understood (2) and others could also know through an interpreter - or how shall they who are sitting beside you say Amen, or how shall they praise if they do not know what is said. Gifts ARE FOR the Church NOT self edification.
     
  11. gb93433

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    Whatever they want. However, if they were examined we might get some rather interesting responses that would be shocking.

    I would wonder if they asked all 44,000+ pastors or if they just did some mickey mouse. Perhaps someone should ask for a copy of the data.
     
    #11 gb93433, Jun 7, 2007
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  12. gb93433

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    The topic mentioned nothing that I see, which would pertain to Romans 12 but rather 1 Cor. 14.

    Perhaps I misunderstood you, but if you are going to compare the context of Romans 12 and 1 Cor 14 I do not see how what you wrote about gifts can apply to both contexts. One of worship and another of general instruction. One when the body meets and another when it does not. They are two different issues. I do not see how you can compare a worship context and the use of gifts in the body in a worship service then compare it to general instruction not in a worship service.

    Of course it benefits the body when someone comes to Christ. The body of Christ is not a building but a body. An evangelist's work is not done in the body but out from the body. Of course it will edify believers when someone comes to Christ but how does that edify the body when an evangelist's work is never done within the body. Once the evangelist has done their work and the person becomes a believer he begins the training process of being built up for the work of service.

    I take a different position that not all of the gifts are for the edification of the body in a worship service but all gifts are for the training and building up of the body. Those who have the gifts are to be training others to do the work of service. Some work is done within the body and some is not. The work of an evangelist is not to build up the body in a worship service such as a preacher in a service but rather to train the body for the work outside of the worship. An evangelist‛s work is not done in a worship service but outside of that context.
     
  13. gb93433

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    Thanks for pointing that out. I had never given it a thought until you wrote that.
     
  14. D28guy

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    Thats great news. Praise God...I hope that percentage keeps rising.

    Mike
     
  15. TBLADY

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    The scriptures shows that there is no such thing as a private gist all gifts were given for the edification of the church- the body! I see no discrepansies with any of them.

    Romans 12:4-8

    4For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:
    5So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.
    6Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;
    7Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching;
    8Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness.

    1 Peter 4:10-11

    10 As each has received a gift, use it to serve one another, as good stewards of God's varied grace: 11 whoever speaks, as one who speaks oracles of God; whoever serves, as one who serves by the strength that God supplies—in order that in everything God may be glorified through Jesus Christ. To him belong glory and dominion forever and ever.

    Eph 4:11-12

    And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

    1 Cor 12 ALL

    Now in regard to spiritual gifts, brothers, I do not want you to be unaware.
    2 You know how, when you were pagans, you were constantly attracted and led away to mute idols. Therefore, I tell you that nobody speaking by the spirit of God says, "Jesus be accursed." And no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the holy Spirit.
    3 There are different kinds of spiritual gifts but the same Spirit;
    5 there are different forms of service but the same Lord;
    6 there are different workings but the same God who produces all of them in everyone.
    7 To each individual the manifestation of the Spirit is given for some benefit.
    8 To one is given through the Spirit the expression of wisdom; to another the expression of knowledge according to the same Spirit;
    9 to another faith by the same Spirit; to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit;
    10 to another mighty deeds; to another prophecy; to another discernment of spirits; to another varieties of tongues; to another interpretation of tongues.
    11 But one and the same Spirit produces all of these, distributing them individually to each person as he wishes.
    12 As a body is one though it has many parts, and all the parts of the body, though many, are one body, so also Christ.
    13 for in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, slaves or free persons, and we were all given to drink of one Spirit.
    14 Now the body is not a single part, but many.
    15 If a foot should say, "Because I am not a hand I do not belong to the body," it does not for this reason belong any less to the body.
    16 Or if an ear should say, "Because I am not an eye I do not belong to the body," it does not for this reason belong any less to the body.
    17 If the whole body were an eye, where would the hearing be? If the whole body were hearing, where would the sense of smell be?
    18 But as it is, God placed the parts, each one of them, in the body as he intended.
    19 If they were all one part, where would the body be?
    20 But as it is, there are many parts, yet one body.
    21 The eye cannot say to the hand, "I do not need you," nor again the head to the feet, "I do not need you."
    22 Indeed, the parts of the body that seem to be weaker are all the more necessary,
    23 and those parts of the body that we consider less honorable we surround with greater honor, and our less presentable parts are treated with greater propriety,
    24 whereas our more presentable parts do not need this. But God has so constructed the body as to give greater honor to a part that is without it,
    25 o that there may be no division in the body, but that the parts may have the same concern for one another.
    26 If (one) part suffers, all the parts suffer with it; if one part is honored, all the parts share its joy.
    27 Now you are Christ's body, and individually parts of it.
    28 Some people God has designated in the church to be, first, apostles; 6 second, prophets; third, teachers; then, mighty deeds; then, gifts of healing, assistance, administration, and varieties of tongues.
    29 are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work mighty deeds?
    30 Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret?
    31 Strive eagerly for the greatest spiritual gifts. But I shall show you a still more excellent way.
     
    #15 TBLADY, Jun 7, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 7, 2007
  16. drfuss

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    TBLADY writes:
    "The scriptures shows that there is no such thing as a private gist all gifts were given for the edification of the church- the body! I see no discrepansies with any of them."



    Suggest you read I Corinthians 14:18,19. Of course with an open mind and not tainted by the innovative cessationist interpretation. Paul definitely had a private prayer language.
     
  17. Allan

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    Please explain biblically the NEED for a PRIVATE PRAYER language.

    Then SHOW biblically ANYWHERE in scritpure it speaks to a PRIVATE prayer language.

    Then explain why Paul via the Holy Ghost wrote the gifts are for the church (1 Cor 12:7) TO BENIFIT ALL.

    Let us tackle these for starters.

    IMHO YOU need to go back and read Chapter 12 - 14 (and not just two selctive verses out of 14)
     
  18. blackbird

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    I would challenge forum readers to read the whole article posted here----including the several paragraphs written that spells out the inadequacies of the survey itself.
     
  19. drfuss

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    I went through this type discussion before, so I know your innovative cessationist interpretations concerning scriptures about speaking in tongues. I choose not to go through all of that again. The scripture is the scripture and means what it says.
     
  20. Allan

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    I state:
    Please explain biblically the NEED for a PRIVATE PRAYER language.
    drfuss states:
    God decided for Christains to speak in tongues, not me. I trust God know bests. Acts 2:4. I Cor 12-14
    Now I state:
    Acts 2:4 has absolutly NOTHING to do with a PRIVATE prayer language.
    I Cor 12-14 DOES NOT speak of a PRIVATE prayer language either, but is completely the opposite in that it speaks of ALL the gifts given for the benifit of the Church body and they were REBUKED for trying to make it private (unto themselves which does not benifit the body). I'm not talking about tongues I'm talking about the unscriptural PRIVATE PRAYER language.

    I stated:
    Then SHOW biblically ANYWHERE in scritpure it speaks to a PRIVATE prayer language.
    You stated:
    I Cor. 14:18,19
    Now I state:
    This does not speak of Paul having a PRIVATE prayer language. It speaks to THE FACT that Paul will NOT speak in a language that no one understands. He even goes on to EXPLAIN this before verse 18 which give us the context:
    And then he brings it into further focus with the verse directly AFTER your selective verse 19:
    Context is pretty straight forward. Nothing about a Private Prayer language but a rebuke for trying to keep it Private and worse yet doing it WITH KNOWING what they were saying. Even Paul wasn't THAT foolish like many who follow the false teachings of some would have others do.

    I stated:
    Then explain why Paul via the Holy Ghost wrote the gifts are for the church (1 Cor 12:7) TO BENIFIT ALL. God did say the gifts are for the church.
    You stated:
    Note that God did not say the gifts were not also for the individual.
    Now I state:
    On the contrary, The 'Gifts of the Spirit' are giving for the benifit of Church which excludes self as the primary benificiary. This is WHY Paul places the Love Chapter (agape - self DENYING love) right smack in middle of Pauls address concerning the USE of spiritual gifts given TO THE CHURCH through its members. Go back and look at how many times the word "edified" is used and the context as to WHOM the 'edifying' is to be applied.
    That by itself screams against the use of ANY 'gifting' being used for personal edification and any other unscriptural formulation there-of, not to mention Context.

    You stated in your conclusion:
    I went through this type discussion before, so I know your innovative cessationist interpretations concerning scriptures about speaking in tongues.
    I state:
    Let's just speak plain and drop the high and mighty word games - What I have given ss called a biblical rendering according to context which is where your opinion dries out.

    You state:
    The scripture is the scripture and means what it says.
    I state:
    I agree, and is why so few people go verse by verse but call out 2 or 3 scripture our of context to proof-text their position. That is why we must start with Chapter 12 (Brethren I would not have you ignorant...) and go verse by verse maintaining context through chapter 13 and 14. It is a rebuke not AGAINST tongues but the improper use of Tongues. And it NEVER once addresses in ANY form a Private prayer language.
     
    #20 Allan, Jun 8, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 8, 2007

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