Stunning Development at Vision Forum

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Jerome, Oct 31, 2013.

  1. Jerome

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  2. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    Another fallen Christian leader. Not sure this is really news, bro.
     
  3. annsni

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    Wow. It so saddens me when this thing happens. While it was not a sexual affair, an affair of the heart is an affair none-the-less. I wish men in leadership and women as well would keep themselves accountable to each other and guard their hearts as if it's a precious jewel. :(
     
  4. Yeshua1

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    I hive him "credit' for doing what he did, and hope that the Christian community will do as the Lord instructed us, to be in the restoration business!
     
  5. Jerome

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    Vision Forum closes up shop, cancels all events

    http://www.visionforumministries.org/
     
  6. annsni

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  7. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    This is troubling, in my opinion, if it's true:

    In his resignation, Phillips made a promise to forego speaking engagements and public appearances "as a representative of the organization" while he sought forgiveness. What that means specifically, it is now apparent, was that he wouldn't make any new speeches or appearances. It didn't keep him from continuing to sell downloads, CDs and DVDs of past speeches and appearances, and he apparently owns the company that sells them.

    Don't know about you, but that just doesn't seem right to me.
     
  8. InTheLight

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    As I understand it, Doug Phillips founded Vision Forum. He was the President. He wrote the sermons, speeches, produced the DVD's and CD's. Now he is resigning and closing the non-profit portion of the ministry and choosing to continue to sell items he has already produced. He has a family to support. He needs some sort of income and he is a producer of original content. What would you have him do for income?
     
  9. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    My only point is, how can he justify promising the non-profit ministry's board of directors he would not speak or make public appearances as a representative of the ministry, and continue to profit from speaking engagements and public appearances that were already past? It might appear to be a grey area, but it seems to me to be quite black and white. If he wasn't going to make appearances for the ministry, he shouldn't continue to profit from the fruits of the past on behalf of the ministry.
     
  10. InTheLight

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    There are two entities, Vision Forum Ministries, which is disbanding and closing, and Vision Forum, Inc., which Doug Phillips owns and continues to operate.
    http://www.visionforum.com/
    This is a confusing situation because the two entities were intertwined. This looks like a case where Doug Phillips was the king and he could do whatever he wanted because he ran the show.

    It is a bit unseemly to continue to peddle books and other materials purporting to tell men how to live godly lives when he admits to adultery of the heart. Maybe he should sell the business and look for work elsewhere.
     
  11. saturneptune

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    Maybe this is naïve, but how does one have an inappropriate romantic relationship with another woman not one's wife, and not act in a way the Bible says, "they knew each other?" Does that mean they kissed, stopped and he feels guilty? Sounds kind of unlikely to me. Kind of like, I smoked but did not inhale? The whole story does not ring true. Either one sins or one does not.
     
  12. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    I understand that. It is irrelevant to the concept of profiting from past product while promising future product will not be forthcoming due to the expressed need to repent from sin that harms the ministry.
     
  13. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    While I understand the point, it would still be inappropriate and potentially alienating to one's wife if one were to kiss, caress, and otherwise rob time and affection from said wife, would it not? What man on this board thinks he could get away with spending inordinate amounts of time with a woman not his wife while making the claim, "I didn't sleep with her so I did not sin"?
     
  14. InTheLight

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    The ministry no longer exists to be harmed. I DO see your point--why is it OK to profit on past productions while promising you won't create any new productions? Seems like a hollow promise. One possibility is that he believes the stuff he produced before his sin with this woman is not tainted, and he feels that anything he produces since then does not have integrity.
     
  15. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    Agreed. I think, however, if he truly intends to repent, he will forego any benefit from the ministry until he feels he is right with God and has made amends to his wife, the ministry, and the ministry's supporters.
     
  16. go2church

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    Protection mode. Inappropriate but not sexual, don't buy it. Resigning from ministry, but remaining at for profit arm, which is still in the whole family values business, please. Zero credibility. Come completely clean, turn over operations of everything ministry and for profit, to a trusted board and go find healing for you and you family.
     
  17. saturneptune

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    Good point. I just cannot imagine that scenario, although, that is what happened. It is kind of like a bank robber holding up a bank with an armed weapon and demanding a nickel. In fact, come to think of it, I have known men who started a regular chat session in some type of forum, and although they never met, the wife got quite upset at the time spent on the computer. One guy would get up every morning around 2 am to talk to someone.

    From that perspective, I see your point. As Christians, we are to avoid even the appearance of evil or sin. Good post.
     
  18. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    Yep, exactly. :thumbsup:
     
  19. annsni

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    Unfortunately, I think sometimes we put too much trust in ourselves and don't realize how far we've gone away from our standards until it slaps us in the face. That's why, while it might seem "legalistic", I appreciate my husband having some guidelines in place for himself to protect himself, his heart and our marriage.

    He will not meet with a woman for counseling unless:
    1. I am with him.
    2. Another person is with him.
    3. If the other person is male, then the door is open or they are in a room with glass doors.

    He will defer much of the counseling of women to a woman.

    He will never touch a woman if no one is around (hugs, laying hands on to pray).


    I'm amazed at his strength in this area and even when a commercial comes on TV like Victoria's Secret, he will turn his head and not watch it. I've seen him do that even when he doesn't know I can see him.

    A man who allows his heart to even be warmed to another woman has already overstepped boundaries and needs to confess and work to stop that feeling. It's wrong. Period.
     
  20. Baptist Believer

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    I agree with your point, but not your interpretation of 1 Thessalonians 5:22.

    In modern American English, we tend to assume the word "appearance" means "the way things look" instead of "something that comes into your presence."

    In other words, the admonition should be understand as, "when evil appears, avoid/reject it."

    If we take the verse to mean that we should avoid doing anything that someone else might think is evil, then Jesus was a terrible example. He healed on the Sabbath, declared all foods clean (in contrast to the Mosaic Law), etc.
     

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