Submission to Husband vs. Church

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Wisdom Seeker, Apr 8, 2003.

  1. Wisdom Seeker

    Wisdom Seeker
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    This is not your average thread on submission. I have a question and have studied the scriptures for the answer. But, I have also heard a different opinion on the same subject and scripture was used to support that arguement as well.

    What I want to know is what is right according to God's plan...

    When the church says that people should attend all church services,(3X+per week) every time the doors open, And the husband does not wish to go to every service but wants to attend one service each Sunday.

    Ephesians 5 says a wife is to submit to her husband in all things.

    Should the wife submit to the husband's authority on this subject or should she defy her husbands decision and obey the churches admonision to attend all church services even if it means going alone?

    I am asking this because I think that a wife should obey her husbands decisions, even when they don't agree with what the church's standard is if it can not be specifically backed up by scripture and does not seem to be an obvious sin.

    The Bible says to not forsake the assembling together as some do. But does going to one out of 3 services go against this doctrine?

    There is a lot of grey area in what can be determined correct. I would appreciate your thoughts and arguements on this topic.

    Thank You,
    Laurenda

    [ April 08, 2003, 01:48 PM: Message edited by: Wisdom Seeker ]
     
  2. stubbornkelly

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    Hmm. From what you wrote, it doesn't sound as though the husband has forbidden his wife to attend the other two services, in which case, I'd say that she is permitted to go, if she chooses to. He has not forbidden it, and she is led to attend. No problem.

    That said, I don't think that it is a Biblical mandate that we attend meeting every time the doors are open, so even if he did rather her not go, and she, desiring to please him, does not go to the other two services, this would not violate anything, except perhaps the church's rules, which are not the rules to which we as Christians are bound. Again, no major problem, other than wondering why a husband would forbid his wife from participating in activities he does not, but it's not an immediate concern.
     
  3. Johnv

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    Submitting to authority in this context is not equivalent to submitting to another's will. That's the difference between a church and a cult.

    A wife who desires to go to church X times a week, while her husband desires to go on only Sundays, is certainly within her biblical right to, so long as the biblical responsiblity to family is not compromised.

    It would be the same thing if you decided you wanted to "go out with the girls" one night. The husband has no authority to forbid you from going.
     
  4. Wisdom Seeker

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    And if the wife wants to submit to her husband in all things like the Bible says. And has no desire to defy him on this subject. Is she outside of the will of God?

    What if her going to church all the time causes him to not want to go at all? What if it causes rifts in the marriage? What then?

    The church has the power to say you have to go to church every day. Should the churches authority be respected more than the husbands authority in the home? Why or why not?

    Is there a scripture that says that the churches authority on the number of services attended takes presidence over the husbands leading in the family?

    If a wife were to defy her husbands decision on this subject to obey the church, would she be out of God's will for her role in the family?

    Should she sacrifice her relationship to obey what the church decides? How is this backed up by scripture?
     
  5. Karen

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    One of the elements involved for me would be really finding out what is going on in my husband's life.
    For example, if he was "backsliding" and displaying a cold heart, I would continue to go and not put up with him blaming his cold heart on my attendance.
    On the other hand, maybe he is being nudged by God towards a different church.
    Sometimes a church has unrealistic expectations.

    Karen
     
  6. Wisdom Seeker

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    Ephesians 5:22 says: "Wives submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the savior of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything.

    Can anyone provide scripture that refutes this scripture? Because I've looked, and I don't see one.

    I thought "backsliden" was a term for someone who has turned their back on God and their faith. Do you think going to church every week, reading the word of God and praying without ceasing should be considered "backsliden"?

    Do you think that Ephesians 5:22 when it says in everything...that it doesn't really mean everything? Why or why not?

    [ April 08, 2003, 02:38 PM: Message edited by: Wisdom Seeker ]
     
  7. dianetavegia

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    johnv said:
    I disagree. If the husband says he doesn't want his wife to go out with the 'girls' one night a week.... the wife should NOT go out! That is not submitting to her husband. According to MY Bible, my husband has the authority to tell me to stay at home and I am to submit to his decision.


    Laurenda:

    Where does it say that the church can insist on attendance? I've not ever noticed any scripture about this and certainly never been in a church that mandated attendance!
    Diane
     
  8. Bro. James Reed

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    Hmmm, you raise a ver interesting question, Wisdom. I would say, the scripture says that wives are subject to their husbands, not slaves. I would also say, just like the church will sometimes stray from the path, sometimes a wife, or a husband, will too.

    One things you have to realize though, is our first priority is to the church. Christ is the bridegroom of the church, who is the church, we are. Therefore, Christ is our husbandman. What he has commanded, we should do. That takes priority over what your earthly husband says.

    Read 1 Corinthians Ch. 7. It doesn't exactly address this, but it says what the duty of a wife, who has an unbelieving husband, is.

    All in all, I would say, do what you feel is best. Pray to God. Of course, don't neglect your duties at home.

    BTW, where does the church get the right to hold services everyday? and, demand that a member be there? Sounds a little unreasonable to me. I would probably find a different church. If they can't understand why someone couldn't come to church everyday, then they are not being realistic.

    We're not talking about you, are we WS? ;)

    Bro. James
     
  9. Molly

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    I think that if the husband is wanting you to sin,you then obey God first...but,if it is a church rule,it is really not biblical(church attendance is not a biblical command) and you want to do what your husband wants,I think it is fine. Hopefully your church will understand. They should aiming for the biblical things to be obeyed,and not worry so much over man made rules.

    I think church attendance should be encouraged by church leaders,though.
     
  10. I Am Blessed 24

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    The church does NOT have the power to say you have to go to church every day. The Pastor should encourage us to attend church but has no authority to demand attendance.

    Our first submission is to Christ, not the church. It should always be God first, husband second. "Submit yourselves to your own husbands as UNTO THE LORD".

    If a husband is not 'forbidding' the wife to go to church, I see no reason for her not to go. If he is forbidding her to go, then she should stay home and PRAY God will soften her husband's heart.

    I have heard 'backsliding' described this way:
    "If you are not as close to God as you were yesterday, you are backslidden".

    JMHO for what it's worth...
    Sue
     
  11. Johnv

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    Biblical authority does not give a husband command over his wife. This is an abuse of biblical authority, probably the most common abuse abong Christian men, imo. A Godly man would never abuse his authority in thie manner, and a Godly woman would not submit to this abuse of it, lest she favor its abuse.


    Man, you sure to ask a lot of questions [​IMG] Mind if I put in my $.02?

    And if the wife wants to submit to her husband in all things like the Bible says. And has no desire to defy him on this subject. Is she outside of the will of God?
    So long as doing so does not cause harm in the marriage or thos in it. OTOH, sometimes, it's not a "right or wrong" choice, it's simply a matter of "neither is wrong". Those choices are often more difficult, imo.

    What if her going to church all the time causes him to not want to go at all?
    Then it may be damaging to the marriage. Too much of anything, even church, is not necessarily a good thing.

    What if it causes rifts in the marriage? What then?
    Then you work on healing the rift. Put God ahead of people, but do not put people behind church. God anc church are not synonymous.

    The church has the power to say you have to go to church every day. Should the churches authority be respected more than the husbands authority in the home? Why or why not?
    Churches, too, can abuse authority. I've seen it happen with my own two laser-surgery-corrected-20/15 eyes.

    Is there a scripture that says that the churches authority on the number of services attended takes presidence over the husbands leading in the family?
    No.

    If a wife were to defy her husbands decision on this subject to obey the church, would she be out of God's will for her role in the family?
    Remember, the church institution is not "the Church" biblically. The "Church" in the Bible referrs to the faith in Christ that is found among a body of believers. A church does not have biblical authority to interfere with the covanent of marriage.

    Should she sacrifice her relationship to obey what the church decides? How is this backed up by scripture? No, and it isn't.
     
  12. Jonathan

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    This is incorrect. Read Paul's discussion of marriage. It was created, in Genesis, as a mystery to image forth the relationship of Christ to the church. As such, the family (which is what is created when a man and women unite in marriage) takes a higher priority than the church. This shouldn't cause too much problem, however, for the church (and pastor) that recognize that intact, strong, and God glorifying families are the foundation for intact, strong, and God glorifying churches.

    I'm sure that I'm not the only one here who has witnessed a pastor (or lay leader) utilize a heavy hand in favor of the church over the family with damaging results to both.

    Let's take the question posed in the original post in this thread differently. Let's suppose that there is a serious problem that has arisen within a family that needs to be resolved immediately. Should one spouse leave to go to church or stay and deal with the problem? One's answer will say a lot about how one see's Scripture's discussion of the institutions of family and the church.
     
  13. donnA

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    You say the husband doesn't want to go but once a week. But does he insist the wife do the samething? Can she go without him? As long as he doesn't demand she stay home from church I see no reason she couldn't go if she wanted to. Unless he isists she stay home, then she is not disobeying anyone,and is not outside God's will. You aren't going to refute scripture, and you aren't disobeying that scripture(eph.5:22) as long as the husband does not insist she not go to church.
    Also I don't think the bible tells us how many times a week to got to church, we are not give any instruction on how many, and even one time a week if assembling together.

    Oh, an if my husband said I couldn't go with friends somewhere I wouldn't go. I also wouldn't go out once a week while I left him at home, I like being with him and don't like being away when he's available. My husband usually will not tell me I can't go somewhere, but I usually choose not to if he's at home. I do on occasion go to church without him, he always goes Sunday am, but not always the rest of the week(I do have to say his pratice is to go 2 or 3 times a week though)
     
  14. Wisdom Seeker

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    Diane, I've searched the scriptures and I can't find anything that says this either. I think the church doesn't exactly mandate attendance as it impresses that to not attend is to be out of God's will. Attendance is strongly suggested. People who do not go to all the services are treated like they are backsliden as the post before you implied. This is a common attitude among members. I don't find this backed up in scripture, so that is why I posted this thread.

    Now to address any other comments after yours.

    Thank You Diane...I appreciate what you said.
    Laurenda
     
  15. Wisdom Seeker

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    #1 I'm not talking about either of these senerios.

    #2 Ephesians 5:22 commands the wife to submit to the husband in everything. So your statments says that the wife should follow this directorate in God's word.

    #3 See #2

    #4 As I stated before, the issue of the husband "not believing" is a nonissue.

    So, to synopsize, the scriptures say that a wife should submit to the husband's authority within the marraige. I've heard people add, ..unless he tells her to sin. (This hasn't been backed up by scripture here, but It makes sense.) And since decreasing weekly devoted church time from 3+ services a week to 1 time a week is not a sin because we can not find scriptures that say that it is...the answer seems pretty clear.

    I think when a wife usurps the authority layed out in scripture of the husband to be the spiritual leader in the family , she is sinning against God's word. All scripture that I have found says that a wife must never do this.

    The husband must answer to God for how he leads the family, not the wife, according to the chain of authority detailed in the Bible.

    Any further comments?

    Laurenda
     
  16. Johnv

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    I just want to reiterate that a husband telling the wife what to do is not what is meant by "authority". Therefore, when a husnabd says "jump" and the wife decides not to jump, that is not usurping biblical authority.

    On all other points, I'd be inclined to agree with you.

    But you already know I do ;)
     
  17. Wisdom Seeker

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    I appreciate John saying that a husband shouldn't assert his authority. My husband feels the same way. But I feel exactly like you Kate...down to the letter.

    Laurenda
     
  18. Johnv

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    Then as long as our husband doesn't assert his authority in an inappropriate manner, and you've agreed to be subject (in other words, trust in him), then I see no problem, because it's clear that the two of you have a healthy marriage. [​IMG]

    Where can I get one of those??? [​IMG]
     
  19. Wisdom Seeker

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    This is more about a church saying jump, and the husband saying my family and I will jump once a week. And the church saying if you don't jump as many times as I tell you to, you're "falling away", "backsliding" "not thriving" "laying hold for the devil in your life". And the husband and wife saying, where in God's word does it say that?"

    The added problem is that the wife is getting this seperately and is being told in not too pleasant terms that if she doesn't go against her husbands leading, she's all those names above. I don't think this is fair. I think it's below the belt. If the husband is the spritual leader, shouldn't all complaints go to the head of the department? :rolleyes: [​IMG]
     
  20. Wisdom Seeker

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    That is what I used to say too . The weird thing is that my husband lived within 5 miles from me when I was in High School, and I didn't meet him. And then we worked in the same business complex for years, and I didn't meet him then either. I didn't meet him until I was 29 years old, after a horrid marriage and a lot of heartbreak. In essense I didn't meet him until I knew what I wanted, and what I didn't, and surrendered to the very real possiblity that I could be alone for the rest of my life and was okay with that. All in God's timing. It'll happen for you too John. You are too great of a guy for it not to. IMNSHO. ;)

    Laurenda
     

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