Suppose you found out the leaders of the church....

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Salty, Apr 9, 2011.

  1. Salty

    Salty
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    Suppose you had joined a church, became very active - say SS teacher, sang in choir, chairman of a committee, an usher - Then a year after joining you found out that the pastor, a couple deacons, the youth leader were divorced. - what would you do?

    Or would you avoid all that and find out before joining if selected leaders were divorced and or married to someone divorced. And while you were at it, would you want to see a criminal background check on any or all of the church leaders?

    One other thing, if you believe that a divorced man cannot be pastor would you consider that to be prejudice; and considered yourself a bigot?
     
    #1 Salty, Apr 9, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 9, 2011
  2. Earth Wind and Fire

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    The best pastor I ever had was divorsed. He was served papers from his ex-wife after their son was in a hit & run accident & the boy was pronounced brain dead. He decided to pull the plug & the wife deplored him from then after. He was the sweetest & most humble man I ever knew & he served Christ with every breath till his untimely death. Because of his marital experience, he was of profound help to those having their own difficulties & helped many to deal with marital problems. He helped my wife & I rebuild a broken relationship & remarried us. So I dont throw stones with other peoples marriages.
     
  3. freeatlast

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    I would move on as they are holding offices that they are not biblically permitted to hold. By the way obeying the Lord is not being a bigot or prejudice, but not obeying is following satan.

    The same if a church put a woman into the pulpit. It has nothing to do with how good she is. She may be better then the greatest male preacher that ever lived. It is all about faith and obediance and her not being lead of the Spirit because she is not biblically qualified.
     
    #3 freeatlast, Apr 9, 2011
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  4. Tater77

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    As I scrolled down I was looking for your hyper-judgmental negative opinion.

    So yes, divorce is the unforgivable sin to a Christians these days. Nope, no forgiveness or Grace for a divorcee.
     
  5. freeatlast

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    Grace and forgiveness does not constitute being used of God. David was forgiven but God would not allow him to build the temple as he was a man of blood. God has set standards and those who love Him have faith and obey, those who do not, rationalize those standards away.
     
  6. Tater77

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    So what are you saying? That you only love God if can uphold all the rules? I guess no one has ever loved God by your standards then.

    A man can fall in love with a married woman, have her husband killed, have blood on his hands and this would disqualify him as a pastor. But a pastor can however preach and teach from his life lessons and most importantly from the portions of the Bible written by him.

    Circular serving logic at its best.

    God constantly and consistently used regular ole sinners to accomplish His will. What you describe is trying to be made perfect in the flesh.
     
    #6 Tater77, Apr 9, 2011
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  7. Van

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    What disqualifies a person from serving in leadership as a role model? They are to be the husband of one wife. But what if they were divorced before they were born again. Could not that person still qualify for leadership. Paul did some pretty bad things, yet was still qualified to teach, because he walked the talk. And since a man can remarry, if he was the faithful spouse and did his best to hold the marriage together, why could not that man serve in leadership too.

    On the other hand, if a person undergoes a divorce, would not the person disqualify himself, resign, and work on his character and integrity and love for others for 2 or 3 years, before he would ask others to allow him to serve as a role model again. I think so.
     
  8. freeatlast

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    Here are the words of God.
    If ye love me, keep my commandments
    Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
    He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him

    In those you can know if you love God or are a liar.

    Falling in love with someone does not constitute biblical love. It is clear that you are operating from a worldly aspect if you think that love is bound up in an emotion or attraction. And no, a person does not murder because of love. Again a worldly idea. To suggest that a person can fall in love with another's wife is foolishness. If he really loved her he would not violate her marriage much less even consider another's spouse for himself. You evidently have no idea of what love is. Perhaps too many soap operas and not enough bible.

    It is true that God uses those who were sinners, but it is also true that He decides which ones not to use and in the case of a pastor or deacon they are to be "one woman man" as well as meet the rest of the qualifications. Those who love God will keep his word, not set it aside for their own standards. Those who do not love God will find an excuse not to obey and seek to justify their sin by calling it good.
    If ye love me, keep my commandments

    Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
     
    #8 freeatlast, Apr 9, 2011
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  9. Ed B

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    Ok, you are just trolling aren't you? I don't completely agree with FAL, but your accusations are over the top. FAL is expressing his opinion and the opinion of a majority of Baptist Churches in Texas. I don't see any hyper-judgementalism or any claim that divorce is the unforgivable sin. Your accusations and arguments are silly and they detract from the thread. That is unless you are a "sock-puppet" for Salty and this was the purpose of the thread.

    By the way, my Pastor is divorced and remarried - a decades old occurrence and I don't know the details regarding conversion time-lines or if infidelity was involved. I haven't directly asked. But I am uncomfortable with it and the hypothetical from the original post comes near to fitting me, though it only applies to one of our vocation ministers.

    I am staying with the Church for various reasons. I am not here to because of the Pastor and it will take more than the pastor to make me leave. That may be flawed thinking but it as much as I care to share right now.
     
  10. jbh28

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    Did he say that? No.
    Tater, you are missing the point. It isn't about being used by God or being forgiven. Both can and should be done. The issue is if one is still qualified to be a pastor according to what Paul laid out in Scripture. Arguments like this don't really serve much purpose.

    Now for me personally, I view that passage as meaning a "one woman man." Can a divorced person be a "one woman man." Yes he can in my opinion. I look at this as a case by case situation. There was a man in my church for many years that was divorced. His wife left him, not long after they got married, by running off with another man. They divorced and he remarried. He has never served as a deacon or pastor but was served in many other areas. So he was used by the Lord. He taught the Bible. He just never held the office of Elder or Deacon.
    People can disagree on the interpretation of the phrase in the verse, but it's not about serving or being used of the Lord. It's about being qualified to be in a particular office.
     
  11. Tater77

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    Sorry guys, after FAL directly insulted my wife in a previous thread, I have an "itchy trigger finger" concerning him.

    I said earlier:
    A man can fall in love with a married woman, have her husband killed, have blood on his hands and this would disqualify him as a pastor. But a pastor can however preach and teach from his life lessons and most importantly from the portions of the Bible written by him.

    FAL , you know I was talking about King David right?

    jbh28 said:
    Did he say that? No.

    But he directly implies it, not just here but in every post. I apologize for my personal grudge against this particular nature.
     
  12. freeatlast

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    All I know is what scripture says and I gave that. You can decide to ignore the Lord's word if you like, but i will not.
     
  13. Tater77

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    No you didn't. Thats your problem, you cant understand the plain words in front of you. You cherry pick the Word trying to find anything you can use to slap someone around all the while leaving out the parts about forgiveness and restoration.

    People make mistakes and we should forgive and restore those who came to repentance and forgiveness.

    But according to FAL they become adulterers after that, thus their disqualification.
     
  14. Crabtownboy

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    1. It would depend on the circumstances.
    2. I always try to remember the "Golden Rule" when interacting with others.

    We were told by our the company through which we have liability insurance that it is a good idea not only to run criminal checks on church staff members, but also on church members and on people who want to join the church. The reason is not to use the information, if there is criminal activity in the past, to keep people from becoming members, but to put in place procedures to protect both the church and that person. For instance a person is on the sexual offender list. That person has accepted Christ and has turned their life around. To protect that person from a false accusation the church has in place a procedure whereby that person will be accompanied whenever they go to the rest room or whenever children and teens are present. This would prevent a false accusation by a teenager who, for whatever reason, wanted to cause that person trouble.

    Again it would depend on the circumstances.
     
  15. Robert Snow

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    I would do nothing, just keep attending.
     
  16. freeatlast

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    What have I ignored?
     
  17. kyredneck

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    Outstanding point.

    How much of The Book is ascribed to Solomon?

    Or Paul?

    ....etc., etc.

    I too find phariseeism to be revolting.
     
  18. Osage Bluestem

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    I wrote a couple of short articles on this subject that may help you in your prayerful discernment of this topic.

    Here is one over divorce and remarriage: http://osagebluestem.wordpress.com/2011/03/28/divorce-and-remarriage/

    Here is one about divorce and the pasotrate: http://osagebluestem.wordpress.com/...nd-remarried-man-qualified-for-the-pastorate/

    I hope you find something useful in them.
     
  19. SaggyWoman

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    Divorce is not the cracking point for me.

    I know of good deacons who are divorced.

    I don't know many divorced youth pastors/pastors.......I know many divorced people who ought not be youth pastors and pastors, but I don't feel that they should be cut from the picture.
     
  20. Alive in Christ

    Alive in Christ
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    Earth wind and fire...

    Tremendous response there, brother. And biblically sound as well.

    Thank you for posting that.

    And dont pay any attention to FAL. He is a modern day legalistic Pharisee. And we know what Christ thought of them. Not good. Not good at all.
     
    #20 Alive in Christ, Apr 11, 2011
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