Swine flu vaccine is being pushed for children/pregnant women but has not been tested

Discussion in 'News / Current Events' started by annsni, Sep 20, 2009.

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  1. annsni

    annsni
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    According to the US News and World Report:

    "If the H1N1 flu outbreak doesn’t peak until midwinter, it could be curtailed with a staggered vaccination program that begins with children and ultimately targets 70 percent of the population, researchers report online September 10 in Science. "

    "Current estimates suggest that between 45 million and 52 million doses of vaccine will be ready by mid-October, with another 195 million by the end of the year. Longini and his colleagues find that because children will experience the highest infection rates they should receive vaccines first. Vaccinating other at-risk groups, such as health care workers and those with compromised immune systems, is also important. Given the pattern of spread among connected people, the researchers suggest that vaccinating 70 percent of the U.S. population will contain the virus."

    "If the pandemic flu peaks earlier in October, a vaccination program that targets children would need to be launched as soon as possible, the new analysis in Science concludes.
    The new work is well done and highlights the importance of vaccinating children, says Jan Medlock, a mathematical biologist at Clemson University in South Carolina. Close quarters with multiple peers and more liberal personal hygiene policies make kids more likely to carry germs. Vaccinating kids protects them and reduces disease transmission, protecting others, he says.
    Compared with most influenza viruses, the H1N1 pandemic flu has also caused more disease in people under age 25 than in older people, perhaps because older people have some preexisting immunity to this strain. That offers another reason to focus initial vaccine efforts on younger people."

    all from http://www.usnews.com/articles/scie...vaccination-should-target-children-first.html

    Additionally, pregnant women should receive the vaccine:

    ATLANTA - Swine flu has been hitting pregnant women unusually hard, so they are likely to be among the first group advised to get a new swine flu shot this fall.
    Pregnant women account for 6 percent of U.S. swine flu deaths since the pandemic began in April, even though they make up just 1 percent of the U.S. population.
    On Wednesday a federal vaccine advisory panel is meeting to take up the question of who should be first to get swine flu shots when there aren't enough for everyone. At the top of the list are health care workers, who would be crucial to society during a bad pandemic.

    But pregnant women may be near the top of the list because they have suffered and died from swine flu at disproportionately high rates.

    "Experts believe an effective vaccine would benefit not only a pregnant woman but also her unborn child."

    from "http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32184356/


    However, here's from the vaccine insert:


    8.1 Pregnancy
    Pregnancy Category C: Animal reproduction studies have not been conducted with Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine or AFLURIA. It is also not known whether these vaccines can cause fetal harm when administered to a pregnant woman or can affect reproduction capacity. Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine should be given to a pregnant woman only if clearly needed.

    8.3 Nursing Mothers
    Neither Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine nor AFLURIA has been evaluated in nursing mothers. It is not known whether Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine or AFLURIA is excreted in human milk. Because many drugs are excreted in human milk, caution should be exercised when Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine is administered to a nursing woman.

    8.4 Pediatric Use
    Neither Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine nor AFLURIA has been evaluated in children. Safety and effectiveness in the pediatric population have not been established.



    Unbelievable.
     
  2. donnA

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    they want to give children and pregnant women a vaccine that has not been tested?
    this isn't even legal is it?
     
  3. annsni

    annsni
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    Apparently it is. And not just want to give it to them but highly recommending it and promoting it! THAT is so scary!
     
  4. Johnv

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    This is a nonissue. The H1N1 flu vaccine has been tested in the same manner that other flu vaccines are tested. The "Pregnancy", "Nursing Mothers" and "Pediatric Use" alerts locted on the insert are the same that one finds on the common flue vaccines every year. Expectant mothers, children, and elderly are the highest risk groups for common flu every year, and every year they are encouraged to be vaccinated. H1N1 is no different.
     
  5. annsni

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    However, the H1N1 vaccine in the past has had very different side-effects than the standard seasonal flu vaccine, has it not?
     
  6. donnA

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    it's now legal to give untested rugs to people? how do drugs like this get passed on to the public, we've seen in the pst drugfs take years of testing to get approval. now this, untested drugs given to epople. thats not good.
     
  7. Johnv

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    There haven't been any side effects at all. The New England Journal of Medicine reports that that not only have the results been highly effective, but no adverse effects have been reported.
    That's a misrepresentation of the facts on how testing is performed. The nature of how a vaccine functions makes it unnecessary to perform testing on variations in population unless there's an indicator that the effects will be different. Flu vaccines fit into that category.
     
    #7 Johnv, Sep 21, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 21, 2009
  8. annsni

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    What is the size of the study? How many were tested?
     
  9. Johnv

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    NEJoM actually cited numerous studies. Between all the different studies done by now, there have at this point been clost to ten thousand people in study groups.

    The rules of statistical analysis dictate that a pattern can be predicted with as little as a few hundred samples, and a permanent pattern can be demonstrated with as little as 1500 samples. This is true of any statistic. In other words, whether the number studied is 1500 people, or 150,000 people, the numeric result is the same (anyone reading this who hastaken a statistical analysis class in college will confirm that). H1N1 statistical analysis is well past that.
     
  10. Revmitchell

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    http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/NEJMoa0907650


     
    #10 Revmitchell, Sep 21, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 21, 2009
  11. Revmitchell

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    According to the CDC no tests are final but are in the process as of Sept 18:

     
    #11 Revmitchell, Sep 21, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 21, 2009
  12. annsni

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  13. Revmitchell

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    Not only but trials that are not yet completed.
     
  14. Johnv

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    It's not just one study. There have been several. This is just one of many. So far, all studies have been consistent.
     
  15. Revmitchell

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    Again trials that are not yet completed.
     
  16. matt wade

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    Is that Chicken Little I hear yelling again?
     
  17. annsni

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    I would just like to see some decent testing on a vaccine before it's fast-tracked and pushed so much and even forced on some people. If the insert in the vaccine itself says that it's not been tested on pediatric or pregnant patients, how can we be sure it's safe?

    My family gets the standard flu shot but even my pediatrician will not provide this shot because of the lack of good testing.
     
  18. ReformedBaptist

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    Well, the good news is...recommended. Not required by law. For now we still have freedom not to vaccinate.
     
  19. Johnv

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    Current testing is consistent with flu vaccine testing done every year every year. This is no different. This is a nonissue.
    It's the same insert found with the common seasonal flue vaccine. Again, this is no different. Again, this is a complete nonissue. There's no need to test it on one-legged dog catchers or Eskimo fisherman either, btw.
    Absolultely right. Since I travel for work a lot, I will be getting vaccinated as soon as reasonably possible. However, I have no plans to vaccinate my children for H1N1 or the common seasonal flu.
     
    #19 Johnv, Sep 22, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 22, 2009
  20. annsni

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