System of Accountability

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by SaggyWoman, Apr 15, 2001.

  1. SaggyWoman

    SaggyWoman
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2000
    Messages:
    17,933
    Likes Received:
    8
    What kind of personal accountability system do you have in place in your life?
     
  2. Aaron

    Aaron
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2000
    Messages:
    15,666
    Likes Received:
    225
    We are all accountable to one another.

    The recent fad of having a "personal accountability partner/system" was made popular in evangelical circles by the pop-psychology, eccumenical, watered-down-Gospel conference called "Promise Keepers." They know that sins such as adultery are abominable, and they acknowledge man's propensity for sin, yet they look to shame to keep men from gross sins instead of pointing them to actual feedom from lust itself through Jesus Christ. If you've read The Pilgrim's Progress this philosophy is aptly personified in the character and advice of Mr. Worldly Wiseman to Christian.
     
  3. SaggyWoman

    SaggyWoman
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2000
    Messages:
    17,933
    Likes Received:
    8
    So, Aaron,in effect, how do you hold me accountable?
     
  4. DocCas

    DocCas
    Expand Collapse
    Retired Staff

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2000
    Messages:
    4,103
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am accountable to my Lord, first, then to my wife, and then to my church. That is enough to keep me very busy.
     
  5. Aaron

    Aaron
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2000
    Messages:
    15,666
    Likes Received:
    225
    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SaggyWoman:
    So, Aaron,in effect, how do you hold me accountable?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I think you know what I meant. If I knew you and knew you to be overtaken in a fault, I would take whatever steps necessary to restore you. If going to you privately didn't work it may be telling your husband, if you have one, or your pastor--whoever has authority over you.
     
  6. SaggyWoman

    SaggyWoman
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2000
    Messages:
    17,933
    Likes Received:
    8
    Is that what the Bible says, to go to someone in authority over me?
     
  7. Don

    Don
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2000
    Messages:
    10,548
    Likes Received:
    212
    Yup. Matthew 18. If your brother won't listen, you take 2 or three with you; and if he still won't listen, you take him before the church.
     
  8. SaggyWoman

    SaggyWoman
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2000
    Messages:
    17,933
    Likes Received:
    8
    Where in there does it designate "authority" short of the church part?
     
  9. Don

    Don
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2000
    Messages:
    10,548
    Likes Received:
    212
    Before I give some pathetic attempt at a weak answer--why do you ask?
     
  10. SaggyWoman

    SaggyWoman
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2000
    Messages:
    17,933
    Likes Received:
    8
    As I was thinking about this strain of thought, I understand that church discipline is one form of accountability. I do not believe itis the only form of accountability.

    I have people in church and peers through life--as well as mentors--who I speak with about concerns. Also, and this is usually church members with whom I work closely (as well as authority, whatever that means) who I feel could and would approach me if I were in error.

    But, I don't know that I believe that everyone who approaches me about errors are necessarily authorities or rulers over me. That is why I ask.
     
  11. Don

    Don
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2000
    Messages:
    10,548
    Likes Received:
    212
    IN THAT EMPHASIS, I would agree with you.

    The concept of "accountability partners" should not be about the "shame" thing that Aaron mentioned, but about "blind spots."

    We all have them. Most of my blind spots are caused by pride. That's why I rely on someone--my wife, my pastor, my friends, even strangers--to let me know when my pride is getting the best of me.

    In this regard, I agree with you. It doesn't take someone in "authority" to help make us accountable in this instance.

    If we're talking about restoring a brother or sister, who doesn't recognize that he/she is committing sin, it's best to approach that person first as a friend; if they refuse to recognize their sin, then approach with two or three others--and it's best to use elders in this case, if only to emphasize to the individual that what he/she is doing is serious enough to warrant the attempt to restore.
     
  12. SPAM

    SPAM
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2001
    Messages:
    164
    Likes Received:
    0
    Aaron, Saggy Woman, and anyone else that may have responded to this topic, I am new to this forum. So please allow me to intrude this thought without having read the entire exchange. I say to you all I am guilty of trying to be something I am not. It is apparent, day in day out, that my opinions in matters generally are not what's best. But, this one thing I am sure of, accountability comes from the heart. Until we understand that God meets us in the humble place of the heart, it wouldn't matter who we had as a check and balance, we'd keep failing. The verse below sums up where our focus should always remain. Godspeed to each of you.

    Matthew 6:33 & 34

    P.S. Aaron, for what it's worth, you are dead on with the promise keepers thing.
     
  13. Aaron

    Aaron
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2000
    Messages:
    15,666
    Likes Received:
    225
    SPAM,

    Thanks. I agree with your accountability philosophy too.

    Saggywoman,

    I was not talking about church discipline. The Scriptures say we are all members one of another. We are all joined to the head, therefore, we are all responsible for holding each other accountable.

    You asked if going to someone with authority over you was Scriptural. Of course it is. How can you dispute that? I'm trying to restore you, not make you a public example.
     
  14. SPAM

    SPAM
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2001
    Messages:
    164
    Likes Received:
    0
    Saggy Woman, if I might ask, what prompted this thought? Have you been disciplined for something within the church, or are you aware of someone who has? Reason I ask, sometimes there is always something underlining the initial thought. If I can help, I would like to.

    Don't be offended, I am not trying to intrude, but I have been in several situations similar to this and just recently resigned an Associate Pastor's position, because of reasons similar to this dialogue.

    Please respond.
     
  15. Don

    Don
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2000
    Messages:
    10,548
    Likes Received:
    212
    Spam, couple of thoughts.

    Matthew 6:33-34, upon first reading, when taking in context of the whole of the chapter, is talking about foregoing the things of the world.

    It is an excellent principle to keep our focus on God; with this I agree.

    However, before I continue, how do you reconcile this--and this thread conversation--with Paul's admonition in Romans 15:1?
     
  16. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,402
    Likes Received:
    12
    I guess I am of an older generation. The idea that I need accountability to others or to a group or to an individual - how I spent my money, my time, my life - smacks of (1) legalistic nonsense or (2) immaturity.

    I held my children accountable (as their father) while they were growing up. They are now adults. I don't ask them to give an account of anything.

    I am one person's servant - GOD! And I will not answer to anyone else. The only "giving account" I read in the Word is to God.

    Now, "bearing one another's burdens" is a valid action in the church. But treating the pastor like a 4 year-old and checking to make sure he "crossed the street" (or whatever) properly is not for me.

    Sorry to rain on the parade.
     
  17. SaggyWoman

    SaggyWoman
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2000
    Messages:
    17,933
    Likes Received:
    8
    Spam,

    No offense taken. I have done nothing to warrant the attention of church discipline.

    I was just wondering about people's spiritual maturity and how they kept on the straight and narrow path.
     
  18. mtompset

    mtompset
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2000
    Messages:
    229
    Likes Received:
    0
    Originally posted by Dr. Bob Griffin:
    I guess I am of an older generation. The idea that I need accountability to others or to a group or to an individual - how I spent my money, my time, my life - smacks of (1) legalistic nonsense or (2) immaturity.

    My reply:
    So you are offended when people approach you and say that their understanding of Scripture is something which contradicts what you have just done? What if you hadn't even considered it before, and their interpretation seem valid?

    Originally posted by Dr. Bob Griffin:
    Now, "bearing one another's burdens" is a valid action in the church. But treating the pastor like a 4 year-old and checking to make sure he "crossed the street" (or whatever) properly is not for me.

    My reply:
    Hey, if some fellow Christian approached you about jay-walking would you be offended? At the same time, is it wrong to ask someone to ask you tough questions to make sure you are staying good in those tough areas?

    I'm thinking you might be missing the boat slightly, Bob.

    Mark Tompsett
    ([email protected])
     
  19. DocCas

    DocCas
    Expand Collapse
    Retired Staff

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2000
    Messages:
    4,103
    Likes Received:
    0
    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mtompset:
    At the same time, is it wrong to ask someone to ask you tough questions to make sure you are staying good in those tough areas?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>This assumes the questioner (inquisitor?) has all the answers and is doing everything exactly right. To me, who is even older than Dr. Bob, that smacks of insufferable self-righteousness.

    Romans 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
     
  20. SPAM

    SPAM
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2001
    Messages:
    164
    Likes Received:
    0
    Don, Matthew 6: 33 & 34 are references that maintain God's intent for the believer; how to maintain focus throught this earthly walk.
    Romans 15: 1 speaks about spiritual maturity within the believer; the grey areas.

    I especially like Dr. Bob's response. Dr. Bob, I'm not feeling any rain.

    Don, my experience is this, after counseling for a while now, one person's opinions are just that, an opinion. What I've stressed to each one I counsel is this, we can either take God at His word and refocus on the goal He establishes, or we can talk opinions. I have found Matthew 6: 33 & 34 extremely effective during these sessions. The entire time opinions are being elaborated on, nothing gets done. Accountability will become automatic, when people begin to take the approach found in Matthew.

    Hope this sheds some light on what I meant.
     

Share This Page

Loading...