Teachings of Zane Hodges.

Ed Sutton,

My first post was to try and set the tone for a discussion, and to see what people have heard about Mr. Hodges in general.

The use of the phrase "seems to have" was intended to foster a critique; either pro or con, without being biased as to what I think. I wanted hear from both sides, especially those with a better theological/experienced background than I.
Yes, I also used the word aberrant, as that gives a hint as to what I believe about
Hodges theology. Again I was merely trying to gauge what people thought of Hodges at first to "open" up the discussion.

The reasoning behind trying to avoid the Calvinism/Arminiandebate, is that I did not want to have the focus; Hodges theology on salvation and grace, as viewed through his belief in a "Two Salvations" doctrine blurred with a deviation into a heated discussion of those two positons.

I agree with you that it may be hard to avoid those issues, but I did not want this discussion to mutate into Calvinist/Arminian free-for-all.

Here are two of Hodges beliefs of which I am familiar with;

1. No Lordship Salvation. (as opposed to John MacArthurs Lordship Salvation.)

2. Two Salvations. This belief would have considerable influence on how one then is to view the doctrines of salvation and grace.

Number 2 is the Hodges belief that I wanted to try and discuss in the light of salvation and grace, though I have a suspicion that No Lordship Salvation might have a bearing on this matter also, in the context of "Easy Believism" and its post salvation affects on when does a believer make Jesus his Lord, and the process of sanctification.

Thank you to both J.Jump and Pinoybaptist for both your commmetaries.
J.Jump, good point about salvation AND sanctification in your first commentary.

I will begin to post Scripture as Hope in Glory pointed out.
I would suggest that Hodges views be read.
I unfortunatley do not have a lot of time to post things, so please bear with me.
It will come in time.

 

EdSutton,

I do not know how extensive Hodges influence is within the Body of Christ, when it comes to what he claims is taught in Scripture, but if his teaching is questionable concerning salvation, then I would not want to say that he is irrelevent to what the Scripture actually does teach, especially if one's thoughts and writtings carry much weight. I do know that Hodges was a professor at Dallas Theological Seminary, and has had a reputation in the past as a solid bible teacher and exegetical scholar, so I would think that what he does teach about the subject on this thread would be important.

Yes, Scripture is our ultimate authority, but if Hodges or any other person has fallen into error, it must be exposed for what it is. Many in the past whom have propogated heresy, have been exposed for what they and their beliefs are.
Paul warned of heretics, especially the growing Gnostic sect.

Here is some Scripture;

Acts, chapter 20:28-31

28": Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

"29": For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous'> wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

"30": Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

"31": Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

Ed what are we to do? Here is our beloved Paul, warning us to take heed, to teach ourselves and our brethern the truth, and to beware of such menthat would lead astray the flock.

We should be thinking of the claims that Hodges has made about what Scripture teaches and others like him.

Also; (And I am sure you do know these things Ed; please do not take offence.)

Galatians, chapter 5:6-9

6": For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

"7": Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?

"8": This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you.

"9": A little'> leaven> leaveneth the whole lump.

The Galations where being influenced by certain Jews who where preaching that circumcision must accompany faith in Christ. This was a false teaching that had crept in. Paul was warning them that this seeminlgly insignificant error ( They where strong in the faith at one time.) was like unto a little lump of leaven, and if not checked, would spread thourghout the whole Galatian Church.

Your second comment will indeed I fear, light a fire. But I agree with you, Jesus has always been our Lord , and we can do nothing to to accomplish that for ourselves, it was done at the Cross.

By that very act on the Cross, we should as saved individuals, confess Him as our Lord.

But this is going to head us in the direction of the Lordship Salvation debate that has raged back and forth between John MacArthur and Zane Hodges.

For now, I just wanted to concentrate on the Two Salvations teaching of Hodges.

I have read the commentaries about Hodge and others that are associated with the Grace Evangelical Society as posted on Middletown Bible Church's website.

There is a lot to read Ed, but if you do have the time, download it and go through it carefully. I may have missed somethings myself.

Thanks to Linda 64 for the heads up about the info on Hodges and his associates teachings MBC site.

Let us continue this discussion. God Bless you all.

 

Lacy,

I will certainly look into the writtings of Zane Hodges further.
I have been reading some of his contributions to the Grace Evangelical Society's journal.

Please do not misunderstand me. I would not just read what the MBC has posted about Hodges, without reading what Hodges wrote himself.

J.Jump,

We should be doing both, teaching the Word and exposing error.
The two compliment one another.
Paul did both.

I hope that this thread can continue in the context of analysis and discovery
of these differering positions concerning Hodges Two Salvations position.

I will continue to read more of what Hodges has written for the Two Salvations position, and will also continue to look at what his critics have written against that position.

Are there any others, whom are either for or against, the Two Salvations postion
as espoused by Hodges and his associates?

 

James,

Could you tell me why you are for Hodges Two Salvations teaching?
I would like to hear both sides, for and against from a biblical point of view.

J. Jump,

You gave some interesting commentary on salvation and santification in your first post. Could you continue with those particular comments (and good ones!) in regards to Hodges Two Salvations teaching?

Lacy,
Why do you consider the MBC's articles of Hodges very biased?

In the end, even as Christians we may not agree on somethings, but let us try to agree in our disagreements and be at peace with one another.
Even if the disagreements are strong ones.

 

J. Jump

Thank you for the previous threads. I did discover them after I started this thread.
I am reading through them now. Quite a lot of information to digest.
With my limited time, I will do what I can to add to this forum again, but I would like to study what others have commented on, while also taking into account
other sources, like Hodges himself and the MBC site, and of course the Bible.

Thank you. God Bless.

PS Please continue if you can. I will try to be back ASAP.

 

Benjamin,

A quick suggestion, no offence I hope.

It would be better, if you can, to provide some commentary with the scriptures
you have chosen to post, as to why you have chosen them and how they might pertain to the discussion at hand.

Take your time, and don't rush.

You may actually have a subtle and valid point that you are making.

 

I have not read Dr. DeHanns' commentary. I will try to obtain a copy and read it.

But I would like explore writings from other sources that
give viable arguments against the Two Salvations teaching, not just those who are for the Two Salvations teaching.

The only source I have right now is the MBC site.

A solution would be to give a list of the the main proponents
(Hodge and Wilkins of course.) and opponents in this ongoing debate on the "Two Salvations" teaching.

I am open and willing to read and study both sides, for and against.

Just an aside; what would be the correct terminology, Two Salvations or Kingdom
Exclusion?

God Bless and have a good weekend.