Featured Ten good, solid reasons marijuana should remain illegal

For comparison purposes only...bear in mind one set of statistics is from the "legal" consumption of alcohol and the other from the "illegal" use of marijuana or hashish.

These statistics were taken from a study done by the Texas department of Criminal Justice from 1998-2000. Both are much worse now.

It appears to me that, instead of considering the legalization of a narcotic based on the fact that alcohol is legal, we should be trying to find ways to rid the world of both.

The is no doubt that both are debillitating and life destructive substances. The Texas prison system has almost as many alcohol abusers in it as marijuana drug abusers. Maybe more, since most in prison for marijuana related offenses are in for selling and distribution. Is our goal to equalize those numbers?

 

I don't know.

Maybe it's because we're beginning to realize that laws based on lies, misinformation, racism and fear to protect corporate profits and provide career advancements for a select few aren't the kind of laws Christians should be arguing in favor of?

Many people assume that marijuana was made illegal through some kind of process involving scientific, medical, and government hearings; that it was to protect the citizens from what was determined to be a dangerous drug.

The actual story shows a much different picture. Those who voted on the legal fate of this plant never had the facts, but were dependent on information supplied by those who had a specific agenda to deceive lawmakers. You’ll see below that the very first federal vote to prohibit marijuana was based entirely on a documented lie on the floor of the Senate.

You’ll also see that the history of marijuana’s criminalization is filled with:

Racism
Fear
Protection of Corporate Profits
Yellow Journalism
Ignorant, Incompetent, and/or Corrupt Legislators
Personal Career Advancement and Greed
These are the actual reasons marijuana is illegal.

http://www.drugwarrant.com/articles/why-is-marijuana-illegal/



Most people know that the “drug czar” — the director of the White House Office of National Drug Control Policy (ONDCP) — is an advocate for the government position regarding the drug war. But not everyone knows that he and his office are mandated to tell lies as part of their Congressional authorization.
According to Title VII Office of National Drug Control Policy Reauthorization Act of 1998: H11225:

Responsibilities. –The Director– [...]

(12) shall ensure that no Federal funds appropriated to the Office of National Drug Control Policy shall be expended for any study or contract relating to the legalization (for a medical use or any other use) of a substance listed in schedule I of section 202 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 812) and take such actions as necessary to oppose any attempt to legalize the use of a substance (in any form) that–

is listed in schedule I of section 202 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 812); and
has not been approved for use for medical purposes by the Food and Drug Administration;
Now, let’s take as a simple example, the issue of medical marijuana. If the government finds that marijuana Has “currently accepted medical use in treatment in the United States” or “accepted safety for use of the drug under medical supervision,” then by law, marijuana cannot remain in Schedule 1 of the Controlled Substances Act, which would immediately legalize it for medical purposes.

But by law, the drug czar must oppose any attempt to legalize the use (in any form).

Therefore, despite the fact that there is extensive evidence of medical marijuana’s safety and effectiveness (including the fact that even the federal government supplies it to patients), and clearly the drug czar would know about all this information, he is required by law to lie about it.

http://www.drugwarrant.com/articles/drug-czar-required/

 

OH you must mean the misinformation that marijuana makes you high? Or the the misinformation scripture gives us when we are told to be sober minded which would be in direct opposition of even smoking drugs like marijuana.

You cannot tell me anything about marijuana there was a time I was active in that culture. And it is a culture of deceit, paranoia, hostility, it is an ugly life style that tears apart families and destroys any desire to be a responsible person in society. And more importantly it is ungodly.

 

Calm down and take a deep breath Rev you're starting to hyperventilate again.

If you believe the government has the authority to prohibit drugs, it's not enough to say that certain drugs should be illegal because they're dangerous to individuals or society. You must show:

that they are dangerous, that criminalization actually significantly reduces the danger, that criminalization is the best way to reduce the danger, and that the side effects of criminalization won't be worse.

Otherwise the argument is meaningless.

http://www.legalizationfacts.com/

Can you show us these four things?

 

I don't have to show anything. I lived it. How about you do you even know what you are talking about? Or are you just spouting off agenda driven statistics based on no personal knowledge yourself. Have you ever seen the lives of children that has been ruined because of these drugs and the lifestyle that always accompanies it? Have you seen, first hand, the perversion that goes along with this life style because all inhibitions have been removed because of this life style? Have you seen the damage that occurs as a result of the paranoia that happens because of this life style?

Have you seen any of that first hand. Don't tell me what I need to show. I lived it. You, in fact, need to show that you know anything at all about the destruction this junk does to peoples lives before you can be credible on this subject at all.

Until then you are nothing more that a talking head spewing a blind agenda.

 

Then why aren't you advocating the criminalization of alcohol and throwing somebody who gets caught with a beer into prison?

Incidentally, yes, I do know the negative effects of drugs. My brother was a drug addict for years, was in and out of jail, nearly bankrupted our grandparents, and broke everybody's heart more times than I can remember.

However, that doesn't mean I don't believe somebody who doesn't do those things should be prohibited from smoking a joint every now and then in the privacy of his own home.

As a Christian, obviously, I believe drunkenness, which applies here also, is a sin and a terrible idea and I would be the first to share the Gospel with him and plead with him to stop, but as somebody who loves liberty, I believe that adults should have the right to do stupid things if they so choose.

I have to admit, I'm really surprised at your position on this. For somebody who posts so many threads decrying government involvement in people's lives, your insistence that individuals should be prohibited by the government from choosing to smoke pot seems inconsistent.

 

I've read this thread from top to bottom and had to come back to this post. Spot on. Why are we even having this argument?

If there are medical uses for it then subject it to the same testing standard as any other drug. If it can provide the benefits claimed by its proponents then by all means let's move it to the marketplace and regulate it like any other Schedule 1 narcotic.

I suspect, however, many of the pro-pot advocates argue from a recreational point of view. :tonofbricks: Fine. Treat it like any other. In NY, cigarettes are taxed at $4.35 a pack. When Monsanto takes over Big Ganja let Big Government tax the life out of it. Just make sure all the anti-smoking advocates get to beat the same drum against smoking, second hand smoke, et al.

Cigarettes are a legal product in this state. You should see the number of folks getting busted for the black market trade. Folks are driving to Virginia where a pack is taxed at $.30 a pack and bringing them to NY to avoid paying NY taxes.

Marijuana is a mind-altering drug. To paraphrase our President, "That's the point, isn't it?" I hate the idea of sharing the road with a drunk driver. I don't want to share it with a stoned one either.

 

Nope. In fact, I just called recreational use a sin and a terrible idea and said I would try to get persuade recreational users not to.

To the contrary, my argument is, and always has been about liberty.

 

You're not getting this.

We don't do things that are wrong because we love and respect our Creator and Deliverer. I'm not going to go out and smoke marijuana for fun because I love and respect my Father, not because some dork on this earth decided to step in and pretend he has any right on this green earth to play that part in my life.

Most people who are not believers with half a brain in their head do not do stupid things out of respect for themselves and others.

Others will continue to do wrong and stupid things in spite of any laws.

 

That was my very thought, too.

The very list could be used to "criminalize" all intoxicants.

Yet some on the board would call for all manner of "freedom of the spirits" and claim it Biblical, yet not allow some "spirits" by claiming them harmful to the body and potentially harmful to others including children.

Seems to me believers need to reexamine what they consider what is actually righteous living for themselves and others.

 

Okay.

The year was 1975. I was 15 years old and addicted to a narcotic called Valium but I would take whatever downer I could find. I stole the valium from my great grandfather and would take 5 or 6 at a time and wash it down with beer, wine or whiskey that I either stole or paid older folks to buy for me until I could see three or four of everything and pass out for days at a time.

But I didn't stop there. I smoked pot and popped all kind of pills. I didn't care whether I lived or died. Matter of fact dying sounded better to me than living at the time. I sold pills and pot to all my friends until one day one of my best friends overdosed on pills I sold him and had to be rushed to the emergency room where he almost died.

Next day I was behind bars facing felony charges. I won't go into the particulars of my punishment but I will say I paid in full for my mistakes.

Looking back on all the harm I did to myself, my family and my friend that could have died I know that getting busted was the best thing that ever happened to me.

Why? Because it brought me to Jesus.

This is a true story. If you don't believe me send a PM to Dan Todd who is a baptist minister that is also a member on this sight and the one who led me to my savior and showed me not only that life was worth living but that there is a better way to live it.

I grew up in the 70's and have seen many of my good friends fall victim to drug abuse over the years. I cannot even number how many have ruined their lives and put their families through a living hell because of drugs.

So why do I argue in favor of legalization? Because you people that argue in favor of prohibition cannot or will not show me that the federal government has the legal authority to outlaw drugs or that criminalization actually significantly reduces the danger, or that criminalization is the best way to reduce the danger, or that the side effects of criminalization won't be worse and effect more people's lives negatively than the drugs themselves.

Now.

If you still believe the government has the authority to prohibit drugs, it's not enough to say that certain drugs should be illegal because they're dangerous to individuals or society. You must show us these things:

Otherwise your argument is just based on emotion and as such is meaningless.

Just so you know as far the three categories of people that argue in favor of drug prohibition mentioned earlier in this thread goes I put you in category one. I know you have a genuine concern for the well being of others. But I believe you aren't helping others at all by ruling out alternative ways that we can help them besides keeping a failed policy of prohibition that has proven over a 40 year span to only benefit the big banks, the drug cartels, corrupt politicians and policemen and the quickly expanding public private (corporatist) prison industrial complex to name a few in place.

Drug prohibition has had 40 years to prove it's worth and all it has proved is that it is a huge failure that has racked up gigantic costs in ruined or destroyed lives (not just in this country but many others as well) our own individual liberties and billions upon billions of wasted tax dollars. It's time to admit that this policy is a failure and move on to something different that might actually help people and make society a better and freer place to live. Our children and our children's children shouldn't have to grow up in a Stasi style militarized big brother police state that will be the end result of this failed drug prohibition policy just because you refuse to see past your emotions long enough to do a proper and rational cost to benefit analysis of the "war on drugs".

 

By pro-pot advocates I meant that in a general way; not you specifically. You yelped first so I'll address what you wrote:

• You consider recreational use a sin.
• You consider recreational use a terrible idea.
• Personally, you would try to persuade an individual to refrain from recreational use

I don't want to put words in your mouth. Am I accurately describing your position?

In spite of those three points you still believe a person should be at liberty to use marijuana if they should so desire? They should be at liberty to sin if they so desire? They should be able to engage in a 'terrible idea' if they so desire? They should be able to disregard any warning you may offer if they so desire?

 

No TND, it doesn't support sin. It supports people not sinning based on it being wrong and out of submission and love for our Father.

The authorities can do their job just as efficiently by going after people when they cause harm. Just like they do now with alcohol. You have argued up and down that prohibition was not good and now we have alcohol, so I must assume you believe what works now is successful. If someone abuses this legal substance and harms someone besides themselves or endangers them, the authorities step in. Why do you not believe this should work the same with marijuana?

No, I do not need a law to stop myself someone else from having marijuana or a knife or a gun. There are consequences if I or they do something wrong regardless of whether or not having one of those led to me or them committing murder, robbery, or other harm to someone else. If someone wants to harm themselves, that's their own stupidity.

 

I know, but I am one and my experience and my reasons go against what you say is typical.

More or less, yes.

Yes, to the liberty to smoke pot, no to the liberty to sin.

You're conflating two different things. As Christians, we don't have the liberty in Christ to sin, but we do have liberty to be free of government interference in out day to day lives.

Yes.

Yes.

 

Okay. Thank you for clarifying.

 

Twisting what the bible says to fit your own agenda of controlling other people's private lives much or what? If this were 1930's Germany you'd probably be the one clicking your heels and turning on the gas in der showers. Right? I mean you'd never disobey the government or it's laws for any reason right? As the Rev has said "the rules is the rules" and it's not our place to disobey them for any reason. If you two really believe that you would have followed Hitler's laws and orders even if knew them to be wrong or unjust.

And what about your constant gripping about Obama and the democrats and how they use the law to control others to suit their own agenda? Are you somehow exempt from the advice you'd have everyone else follow or be in danger of hell fire? Aren't you bound to live up to what you demand others live up to?

Do you consume fatty foods and sugary desserts? If you do and you know that they can cause harm to your bodily temple what does that make you?

For one you are misrepresenting what God has said to fit your own agenda to use government coercion to control other people's private lives.

No she keeps explaining it to you but you aren't listening preferring instead to accuse her of not being rational because obviously she can see how irrational, un-American, anti freedom and hypocritical your argument of using government coercion to control other's private lives is. But she's to polite put it to you bluntly.

How many times have you blown your top when a "liberal" has argued in favor of using government coercion to control what others do? And yet here you are arguing in favor of using government coercion in order to control other people's lives.

You know what's that called don't you?

No you haven't got that right at all. Because you aren't listening to her. You are trying to project your misguided fears and need to use govt coercion as a tool to control others private lives on her and trying desperately to make her feel guilty because she doesn't see things the way you think she should.

I understand your issue perfectly. You just don't like it when people disagree with you. I suggest you either get used to it or put everyone on your ignore list.

Again this is a false argument. No one here is in favor of supporting sin.

 

Just a question to those that don't believe government has the right to criminalize the sale of marijuana....


Are you suggesting that government has no legal authority to regulate the sale of any drug, or just marijuana?