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Thank Calvin for your freedom

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Luke2427, Dec 17, 2010.

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  1. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    Who said to NOT thank God first and foremost?

    You don't agree that we ought to thank PEOPLE too????

    Do you thank your mother???

    That's silly.

    Of course it is ok to thank Calvin and George Washington and Ben Franklin for our freedom.

    To argue against that is nonsensical.

    And we were doing so well, you and I.:smilewinkgrin:
     
    #21 Luke2427, Dec 17, 2010
  2. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy Well-Known Member
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    Luke, I read the piece in the Washington Post. You should give credit and a link to it. The piece is obviously filled with omissions of the history of the Puritans and their intolerance for others. The piece is not balanced in its approach to Calvin or the Puritans as seemingly they could and can do no wrong and are responsible for everything good. And that just isn't true.

    By the way I have great respect for John Adams, but do believe he was not accurate on his statement on Geneva. Geneva was anything but a place of religious freedom.
     
    #22 Crabtownboy, Dec 17, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 17, 2010
  3. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    I agree. I don't really care that much for the freedom of a Muslim to worship in this country, if the truth be told.

    But FREEDOM as a whole comes from (God first- preacher4truth) Calvin.

    It is improper for us to remember the Pilgrims on thanksgiving and spit in the eye of that which drove them across the ocean to come here- Calvinism.

    I am not saying you do that, BTW. I don't think you do. But I started this thread in response to those who do.

    It ought also to be noted that Luther and Calvin gave us the "Protestant Work Ethic" which made America great.
     
    #23 Luke2427, Dec 17, 2010
  4. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    What you don't see here, my little flower, is that when it is always pointing to Calvin this, Calvin that, Calvin, Calvin, Calvin!!! that my little "tulip" it becomes borderline idolatry. It's like the church I visited, every single quote was Pink Pink Pink!!!! I was hoping he'd mention Floyd in there too to balance it out. We never get in trouble when it is God we seek to exalt more than any other person. Calvinism tends to sing the praises of Calvin moreso than God.

    I'm still pluckin' petals... "do he be alubbin me?" "do he be alubbin me not?"


    :flower: :love2: :smilewinkgrin:
     
    #24 preacher4truth, Dec 17, 2010
  5. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    First of all, I meant to give the link.

    Second of all the article was under no ethical obligation to adress EVERY grievance ANYBODY has with the Puritans in order to be balanced.

    What the article says is true- that is enough.

    If I tell you my uncle is a big man and you meet him and see that he is a fat man- would you say- "Luke you were dishonest!!! He is big because he is fat. You left that detali out!!1"

    No, of course you wouldn't. The fact that he is big is TRUE regadless of the fact that he is big because he is fat.

    The Washington Post article did not have to include a discourse on the Salem Witch trials to be true.

    The Puritans were by and large GREAT GREAT people to whom we OWE a MASSIVE debt of gratitude.

    That some of them did not do everything the way you would have should not discount that.
     
    #25 Luke2427, Dec 17, 2010
  6. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    I don't point to Calvin more than God.

    And yea, I love you.

    You can thank God for that, and thank Calvin for it too who said:

    But thank God FIRST!!:love2:
     
    #26 Luke2427, Dec 17, 2010
  7. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    I lubs ya man!!!

    Do you have the puritan hard drive?
     
    #27 preacher4truth, Dec 17, 2010
  8. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    No it's too dadgum expensive. I'll let you send it to me for Christmas!:thumbsup:
     
    #28 Luke2427, Dec 17, 2010
  9. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Personally brother, I don't much care for labels and I really don't want to know if a brother/sister is calvinist or arminian or something else.

    In my way of thinking, what is important is the fruit of the Spirit being seen in a vessel infilled with the Spirit having been born of the Spirit.

    Fellowship should be around our great God and Savior Jesus Christ and all glory given to the Triune God though I believe it is proper to be thankful to those human vessels of whatever persuasion which He sends our way to help in a time of need.


    HankD
     
    #29 HankD, Dec 17, 2010
  10. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    #30 preacher4truth, Dec 17, 2010
  11. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    Thanks Hank. I agree with all of this.

    But I think those who are always spitting in Calvinism's eye need to know the truth about their heritage. They need to realize that John Calvin had more to do with the founding of this great nation than any other human in history.

    And when they know that, then they will be slower to be so antagonistic towards Calvinism- because they will know that when they are, they are disrespecting their forefathers and their heritage and their nation.
     
    #31 Luke2427, Dec 17, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 17, 2010
  12. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Well that was a messed up church......go to the ones that point to Christ. You do know how Pink ended his days dont you?
     
    #32 Earth Wind and Fire, Dec 17, 2010
  13. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

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    Just because we use the common label of calvinism, to represent the five points, which weren't even drafted by Calvin, does not make us lovers of the man. He was a political dictator, observed false doctrines, and developed a state church as much as other reformers.

    I respect Calvin, but I do not come close to adoring him. I much prefer Augustine in so many ways.

    If you wish to praise calvinism for a free America, try praising King George III, for being a lunatic, and driving the settlers to seek their freedom.

    Just because a lie is believed by a thousand men does not make it truth. Profane history makes it clear what a political tyrant and dictator John Calvin was.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
    #33 Jim1999, Dec 17, 2010
  14. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    #34 Luke2427, Dec 17, 2010
  15. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Agreed. We ought not to spit in anyone's eye (unless it's by accident when we are preaching the gospel to them).

    HankD
     
    #35 HankD, Dec 17, 2010
  16. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    This reminds me that I never responded to you on that pm that you sent me.

    Pink couldn't find a pastor he could sit under. That's why he did not attend church in the end.
     
    #36 Luke2427, Dec 17, 2010
  17. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    Now THAT is funny.:laugh:
     
    #37 Luke2427, Dec 17, 2010
  18. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    I don't think this is a fair representation of Calvin. He lived in a different world than we do. He did the best he could with what he knew at the time.

    Let's remember our foundners were by and large slave owners. We still love them and honor them because we understand they lived in a different world.

    I think this ought to be our attitude toward Calvin.

    But regardless we ought to recognize that he had more to do with the founding of this nation we love than any other single man in history.

    We can disagree with some of his political views and still thank him for America.
     
    #38 Luke2427, Dec 17, 2010
  19. matt wade

    matt wade Well-Known Member

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    First, I don't agree with that statement.

    Second, Hitler had more to do with the shape that Germany is today than any other single man in history.

    Just because (your think) a single person is responsible for the shape or founding of a nation, doesn't mean it's a good thing.
     
    #39 matt wade, Dec 17, 2010
  20. Robert Snow

    Robert Snow New Member

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    Luke, you are really obsessed with Calvin, aren't you?

    You might consider Calvin to be somewhere between the Apostles and the Trinity, but it just isn't so.

    And, as far as Calvin being the father of America, you are delusional.

    BTW, have you put up your Calvin...uh...I mean Christmas tree yet? :tongue3:
     
    #40 Robert Snow, Dec 17, 2010
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