Thank Calvin for your freedom

Let's be honest, Calvin himself had no knowledge of the country (US) which was to come. It was those who followed his teaching and the fact that they were persecuted where they were. They simply looked for a place to "live peaceably". I commend them, not for their theology, but for their courage to set out toward the "unknown"

"Calvinism is a scourge" may be a bit harsh, but remember, there are those whose passion "against" Calvinism, is equally as strong as your passion "for" Calvinism, so you seeking to be mature, spiritually and intellectually should recognize it for what it is.

"Calvinism the driving force behind this great nation" That is a statement of personal position and a great deal anecdotal. Many people contributed to the development of this great nation, even "heathens" and non-believers.

You seem to make a bone of contention, where there is no need to have one.

 

From an academic standpoint Jean Calvin has little influene on the founding of America. This isnt to say he doesnt have any, but its not as much as suggested by the OP.

 

Wow! People need to pick up a history book; one, that is, that has not been "secularized."

Yes, Calvin and his followers had a huge impact on the formation of the U.S. But no, Calvin is not "the" founder. Yet were God to have not chosen to use Calvin in such a way, there is no doubt that the U.S., if it existed at all, would look vastly different. The Christianity that founded the U.S. was Calvinist.

The bigger issue: I am amazed about how little people on here who bash Calvin know about him, and about Geneva. Someone said something about the harshness of Geneva, and that is absolutely laughable. Geneva might appear harsh by today's standards, but in the 16th century it was considered extremely tolerant. Even the Anabaptists and libertines were tolerated in Geneva in a way they were not elsewhere.

This tolerance is exactly why Servetus came to Geneva. He knew their were factions there that he thought would be sympathetic to his revolutionary ideas; people that would not be tolerated elsewhere. Servetus believed that when he went to Geneva, he could rally these people, and overthrow Geneva and Calvin.

Servetus was a mad man, and a revolutionary. He was put to death for promulgating heretical ideas, in a day that such was a method of revolution. The church was tied to the state (everywhere, not just Geneva) in a way that it was not today. I wonder if those who object to Servetus' execution, and are angry at Calvin's approval of it, realize how many lives that the council of Geneva probably saved by preventing rebellion? I wonder if they would likewise be angry at the hanging of Osama Ben Laden?

It is hilarious how, when someone says something people don't like, certain people demonize anything they do.

 

Be careful all. Nothing comes between Luke and his Calvinism!!!


:saint:

Hey Luke, if the plane you're on lands safely, what do you say?

1) Thank Calvin

2) Thank God

:thumbsup:

 

Brother, its all connected with the word Calvin.....didnt you notice how that works? Several months ago the bad word was Catholic. Youd get ripped apart if you were one or simply had sympathy for one. Youd get labeled as a heretic & bang, out the bloody door like the trash you are.....rotten Papist. I also saw them rip apart a guy for being a Charismatic.....God help him for saying so. Yes we are all God's children....only some are better than the others so we have license to rip them apart & be snotty to them. Oh yea, real Christian virtue at work on this board I'm thinking. Rather shameful behavior if truth be told.

 

If everything Calvin did was predestined...how can he get any of the credit?

 

I can't help myself. I was predestined to point out the errors of Calvinism. :tongue3:

 

Give me a break. If John Calvin never existed there would still have been believers who advocated the doctrines of grace. I know that because they existed before, during, and after Calvin. In fact, things might be easier for us believers in the doctrines of grace since we wouldn't have to fight off the junk that goes along with the label "Calvinism."

The Reformation is probably the worst name for a movement in history. They didn't reform anything. The Catholic church remained just as corrupt after they were done as it was beforehand. All they did was form new demoninations. Wrong move. There were already believers holding to the truth.

 

Calvinism did play a role in the attitudes of many of the earliest settlers in this country. It is true that Calvinists were known for their work ethic.

Here is an interesting article concerning Protestantism and especially Calvinism's role in developing capitalism.

http://www.enotes.com/topic/Max_Weber#The_Protestant_Ethic_and_the_Spirit_of_Capitalism

However, there was also many negative and harmful attitudes they brought with them. They considered the native American Indians heathens, the unelect. This led to taking of their lands and slaughter in many cases.

Calvinism had a profound affect on America, good and bad.

 

Almost sounds to me that people are worshipping "a man" and not the one that we truly need to worship and thank for everything, which is Christ, not Calvin or any other man. This is very dangerous to our spirituality and to the church. There have been a lot of great men throughout time and none of them are worthy of our worship, not even the greatest men in the Bible, except Christ. Paul warned people about this in several of his epistles and he wanted to make sure that people didn't exhalt him above Christ. When we take focus off Christ and put it on man, we've sinned. In the end, Calvin was only a man, who had flaws, temptations, and shortcomings like any other man. He had some good points and some not so good, in my opinion. That's what made him human. I study several different men of God throughout history and the impact that they have but ultimately I let the "Spirit of Truth" guide me, not man. Let's don't lose our perspective.

 

Ahhhhhh, but education is wasted on a man that is too ignorant to use it. Smart is also knowing when to SHUT UP!!!!

 

True words indeed!

 

So sorry I forgot to thank you last fourth of July.