That debilitating disease - atheist darwinism: What say you?

Sadly - it appears from Romans 1 and from statements by people such as Dr Dawkins that pagans and atheist "see clearly" what compromised Christians clinging to atheist darwinism "anyway" say they "Fail to see".

Richard Dawkins is Professor of the Public Understanding of Science at Oxford University. He is the author of many books including the international best-sellers "The Selfish Gene", "The Blind Watchmaker", and "Climbing Mount Improbable."

FROM : http://www.pbs.org/faithandreason/transcript/dawk-frame.html
Excerpt –

Quote:
QUESTION: What is your response to the view that some Christians are putting forward that God is the designer of the whole evolutionary system itself?

MR. DAWKINS: In the 19th century people disagreed with the principle of evolution, because it seemed to undermine their faith in God. Now there is a new way of trying to reinstate God, which is to say, well, we can see that evolution is true. Anybody who is not ignorant or a fool can see that evolution is true. So we smuggle God back in by suggesting that he set up the conditions in which evolution might take place. I find this a rather pathetic argument. For one thing, if I were God wanting to make a human being, I would do it by a more direct way rather than by evolution. Why deliberately set it up in the one way which makes it look as though you don't exist? It seems remarkably roundabout not to say a deceptive way of doing things.
But the other point is it's a superfluous part of the explanation. The whole point -- the whole beauty of the Darwinian explanation for life is that it's self-sufficient. You start with essentially nothing -- you start with something very, very simple -- the origin of the Earth. And from that, by slow gradual degrees, as I put it "climbing mount improbable" -- by slow gradual degree you build up from simple beginnings and simple needs easy to understand, up to complicated endings like ourselves and kangaroos.
Now, the beauty of that is that it works. Every stage is explained, every stage is understood. Nothing extra, nothing extraneous needs to be smuggled in. It all works and it all -- it's a satisfying explanation.Now, smuggling in a God who sets it all up in the first place, or who supervises the details, is simply to smuggle in an entity of the very kind that we are trying to explain -- namely, a complicated and beautifully designed higher intelligence. That's what we are trying to explain. We have a good explanation. Why smuggle in a superfluous adjunct which is unnecessary? It doesn't add anything to the explanation.



(Note for the Reader: In the above quote Dawkins argues that Christian evolutionist think “God does something”, that “God contributes something” to the subject of origins. And on that point alone – Dawkins argues for the inconsistency and flawed logic of so-called-christian-evolutionism.

Christian evolutionist sometimes argue against Dawkins claiming that HE has made too much of a grandiose claim about what Christian-evolutionists think God is doing. In essence those Christian evolutionists argue that Dawkins has to HIGH a view of God!!

How sad that Christian evolutionists are prone to going to such extremes.)

Here we see a thread where UTEOTW tries the "lowered expectations of God" approach such that blind believe in fully formed living cells from nothing (as hoped by atheists) is to be believed OVER the Word of our Creator God not matter how improbable those atheist beliefs are!

 

After which I point out two totally vaccuous fact-devoid posts from our atheist darwinist "devotees" ON THIS THREAD

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=824786#post824786

 

Then I point to a Christian community that fully recognizes the impact of errors from the pit - known as atheist darwinism -- and how "error" ACTUALLY impacts REAL life!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobRyan
I just saw a program from Coral Ridge Ministries - (Dr D. James Kennedy) entitled "The Root of the Problem" - where he is emphatic that this disease we call atheist darwinism provided the basis for the "super race" concept of Hitler.

So I suppose there is "one other" who recognizes the cancer within the body of the Christian Church.

Next.

To which we get the ranting whine of Eric -- AS IF anything posted against atheist darwinism here can not be tolerated by Eric!!

Note Eric's totally bogus factless idea that racism existing BEFORE Darwin means that Hitler CAN NOT have used Atheist Darwinist ideas about "superior races and INFERIOR races" to gin up his EUGENICS program and to feed his military for getting their enthusiastic support.

HISTORIC sources seem to have no meaning at all to Eric as he simply INVENTS his argument above as he opens up on D James Kennedy!!

Then Eric "opens up on me" for daring to agree with Kennedy's view that Atheist Darwinism ACTUALLY had signficant and visible "results" in Nazi Germany AS THE HISTORIC SOURCES quoted in that segment of Kennedy's fully stated - and for pointing out Eric's "nothing but blind-attack" on any source that exposes atheist darwinism so far on this thread!!

How "instructive" as we read Eric's posts and see this totally innexplicable falling-on-the-sword when it comes to atheist darwinism!!

Why do it Eric?

Why not get a grip? Why be on the wrong side in EVERY issue EVEN when you state clearly that you have no REASON to keep doing it??

In Christ,

Bob

 

Quote:
Jonathan Edwards is the one that details "Their JOY" at seeing the torment of the wicked - and THEY agree with him. HOW in the WORLD can you BLAME ME for that??!!!

I merely point it OUT - while by CONTRAST pointing out the SORROW that would be the response of the loving God and the loving parent in the Arminian scenario with the SAME conditions where "God so LOVES the HE GAVE" !!!

What part of this is difficult for you to grasp in your endless complaining??

Huh??? You are whining that I am stating the truth but the Calvinists are not responding to it - so now that is ANOTHER reason for you to bash ME???

You have totally lost it Eric!

 

Quote:
Fact B: While we DO have historic sources showing Hitler to link evolutionism to his policies we do NOT HAVE historic sources showing well documented references by Hitler to the argument you made up. So now we have your "story telling" to compare against the actual historic published statements from Hitler and those who wrote of his policies and actions to "contrast".

Why do you keep going down these dark allies each time a point of truth is raised??

#1. You ALREADY SAID you agreed with the historic sources used by KENNEDY (btw - can't blame ME that those sources EXIST).

#2. You provide NO HISTORIC SOURCES for ANY argument you have made here!

#3. So obviously you provided NO SOURCES saying that "Darwinism WAS NOT used as the BASIS for Hitler's doctrine on the MASTER race"

And YET you willingly fall on your sword for that idea!!!

How sad.

How "instructive" Eric.

You have no actual REASON to be slamming D. James Kennedy or ME on this subject - you simply "do it out of habbit" EVEN while saying you have no OTHER reason for defending Atheist darwinism.

You are a real "story" Eric.

 

Quote:
I leave the defense of atheist darwinism now to Eric - who does not believe in it - but wants to whine about anyone exposing it or its effects on history in this thread.

 

Quote:Bob said
THAT is a very telling statement on our part Eric!! I can't believe you would post it!

You compare your whining about D. James Kennedy being a well-respected Christian teacher -- with MY whining about atheist Darwinism and its negative impact AS SEEN by the bogus non-truths EVEN posted by the darwinists ON THIS THREAD!!

I have to agree with you on that point - you ARE whining about D. James. Kennedy in that same way AS IF HE is some kind of evil being in the same way Satan would use atheist doctrines inserted into the Christian church.

You bring that in to a thread where I am exposing the damage that Atheism does - BECAUSE (in this case) Kennedy is ALSO shown to highlight the flaws and dangers of atheist Darwinism -- THEN you point out "innexplicably" that though you are simply whining about Dr. Kennedy - if we talked with you longgggggggg enough we would find that you do not fully agree with atheist darwinism -- (just that you apparently like whining about Kennedy more than highlighting the dangers of atheist doctrines inserted into the Christian groups seen here!)

How sad Eric!

Same response we get from the devotees to atheist darwinism!

Funny how you are NOT supposed to be on the wrong side - in the case of Calvinism and Atheist Darwinism - you just "post like them".

Oh well!!

 

Quote:
CHARLES ROBERT DARWIN stands among the giants of Western thought because he convinced a majority of his peers that all of life shares a single, if complex, history. He taught us that we can understand life’s history in purely naturalistic terms, without recourse to the supernatural or divine. ~ Niles Eldredge

For Darwin, any evolution that had to be helped over the jumps by God was no evolution at all. It made a nonsense of the central point of evolution. ~ Richard Dawkins


I leave the defense of atheist darwinism now to Eric - who does not believe in it - but wants to whine about anyone exposing it or its effects on history in this thread.

 

Quote:
Fact B: While we DO have historic sources showing Hitler to link evolutionism to his policies we do NOT HAVE historic sources showing well documented references by Hitler to the argument you made up. So now we have your "story telling" to compare against the actual historic published statements from Hitler and those who wrote of his policies and actions to "contrast".

Why do you keep going down these dark allies each time a point of truth is raised??

Do we get all these harsh posts from you WHEN we expose the atheist Darwinist problem in Nazi Germany - because WE ARE RIGHT to expose this error but we are not hammering Hitler's childhood, teachers, church IN ADDITION to pointing out the historic references to his reliance on atheist darwinism as the genesis for his eugenics program and his "master race" doctrines???

IS THAT where all your vitriol comes from? Really??

Somehow your history of posts on this thread does not support that fantasy!

 

Notice the OP is filled with SPECIFIC EXAMPLES of how the debilitating disease of atheist darwinism has failed UTEOTW on this very board in specific cases where "variables were few, known and obvious to all".

I.E. the EASY STUFF!!

Notice that IN ADDITION we point to ONE MORE EASY example in the case of Hitler where History is CLEAR on the genesis of BOTH his eugenics program AND his master race doctrines (one highlighted in a recent sermon from D James Kennedy in this case. This was done in response to the totally vaccuous argument of atheist darwinists on this thread that SDAs are the only ones that would NOTICE the blunders of atheist darwinist devotees as listed above)

And all we get from the atheist darwinists is pure falsehood.

Likewise All we get from Eric is pure vitriol against D. James Kennedy and myself because in "his words" we are RIGHT to point out this doctrinal damage done by atheist darwinism but we are not including the WORLD of OTHER things that ALSO went wrong in the case of Hitler!!

How -- similar!

 

Eric - calm down

If I could not find harsh vitriol in your post above - I would have to have my head examined!!

 

Eric then turns his harsh vitriol on me for daring to show proper credit to the good work being done to expose atheist darwinism --

And of course Eric ends his harsh tirade of vitriol with the good 'ol "I'm on your side" ending point.
If only this thread were about the many varied ways that Eric finds to bash those that expose the dangers of atheist darwinism!

 

Sadly - it appears from Romans 1 and from statements by people such as Dr Dawkins that pagans and atheist "see clearly" what compromised Christians clinging to atheist darwinism "anyway" say they "Fail to see".

Richard Dawkins is Professor of the Public Understanding of Science at Oxford University. He is the author of many books including the international best-sellers "The Selfish Gene", "The Blind Watchmaker", and "Climbing Mount Improbable."

FROM : http://www.pbs.org/faithandreason/transcript/dawk-frame.html
Excerpt –

Quote:
QUESTION: What is your response to the view that some Christians are putting forward that God is the designer of the whole evolutionary system itself?

MR. DAWKINS: In the 19th century people disagreed with the principle of evolution, because it seemed to undermine their faith in God. Now there is a new way of trying to reinstate God, which is to say, well, we can see that evolution is true. Anybody who is not ignorant or a fool can see that evolution is true. So we smuggle God back in by suggesting that he set up the conditions in which evolution might take place. I find this a rather pathetic argument. For one thing, if I were God wanting to make a human being, I would do it by a more direct way rather than by evolution. Why deliberately set it up in the one way which makes it look as though you don't exist? It seems remarkably roundabout not to say a deceptive way of doing things.
But the other point is it's a superfluous part of the explanation. The whole point -- the whole beauty of the Darwinian explanation for life is that it's self-sufficient. You start with essentially nothing -- you start with something very, very simple -- the origin of the Earth. And from that, by slow gradual degrees, as I put it "climbing mount improbable" -- by slow gradual degree you build up from simple beginnings and simple needs easy to understand, up to complicated endings like ourselves and kangaroos.
Now, the beauty of that is that it works. Every stage is explained, every stage is understood. Nothing extra, nothing extraneous needs to be smuggled in. It all works and it all -- it's a satisfying explanation.Now, smuggling in a God who sets it all up in the first place, or who supervises the details, is simply to smuggle in an entity of the very kind that we are trying to explain -- namely, a complicated and beautifully designed higher intelligence. That's what we are trying to explain. We have a good explanation. Why smuggle in a superfluous adjunct which is unnecessary? It doesn't add anything to the explanation.



(Note for the Reader: In the above quote Dawkins argues that Christian evolutionist think “God does something”, that “God contributes something” to the subject of origins. And on that point alone – Dawkins argues for the inconsistency and flawed logic of so-called-christian-evolutionism.

Christian evolutionist sometimes argue against Dawkins claiming that HE has made too much of a grandiose claim about what Christian-evolutionists think God is doing. In essence those Christian evolutionists argue that Dawkins has to HIGH a view of God!!

How sad that Christian evolutionists are prone to going to such extremes.)

Here we see a thread where UTEOTW tries the "lowered expectations of God" approach such that blind believe in fully formed living cells from nothing (as hoped by atheists) is to be believed OVER the Word of our Creator God not matter how improbable those atheist beliefs are!

 

Naturalistic evolution has clear consequences that Charles Darwin understood perfectly. 1) No gods worth having exist; 2) no life after death exists; 3) no ultimate foundation for ethics exists; 4) no ultimate meaning in life exists; and 5) human free will is nonexistent. ~ William Provine

Evolution is the greatest engine of atheism ever invented. ~ William Provine




Of course - heaven help us if we expose this fact in front of Eric!!

 

Ok - I just couldn't help posting that last line --

 

This is from the OP

Wouldn't it be great if we could "address the topic" of the OP??