The 2 seeds

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by HisWitness, Jan 16, 2013.

  1. HisWitness

    HisWitness
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,483
    Likes Received:
    0
    This is just a question for all to answer.

    Who was the seed of the serpent and who was the seed of the woman (in the garden of eden) ?
     
  2. kyredneck

    kyredneck
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    10,569
    Likes Received:
    276
    The Woman is the Heavenly Zion (Ps 87, Gal 4:26, Rev 12) and her seed are all the redeemed that are born from above (Jn 3:3,5,7,8).

    The seed of the serpent are those born after the flesh, of the devil, who have persecuted those born after the Spirit (Gal 4:29) down through history. The very first born recorded, Cain, who was of the evil one, slew Abel, a clear type of Christ. John the Baptist called those Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism 'offspring of vipers' (Mt 3:7), and it was they who killed Christ.
     
  3. HisWitness

    HisWitness
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,483
    Likes Received:
    0
    So how does the seed of the woman bruise the head of the serpent and the serpent bruise the heel of the woman's seed ?
     
  4. kyredneck

    kyredneck
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    10,569
    Likes Received:
    276
    the serpent bruise the heel of the woman's seed = Jews crucified Christ

    the woman bruise the head of the serpent = Christ defeated the works of the devil at the cross
     
  5. percho

    percho
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    3,897
    Likes Received:
    37
    Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

    Relative to man when and how was the power of death first exercised?
     
  6. HisWitness

    HisWitness
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,483
    Likes Received:
    0
    Very interesting :)

    Good Post :)

    im still studying different aspects of this topic--but i like what you posted :)
     
  7. 12strings

    12strings
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2004
    Messages:
    2,743
    Likes Received:
    0
    I believe this is the most common view of the "seeds". I haven't actually heard any alternatives...Evil men killed Jesus, but it was not truly a death-blow...but merely a bruise...Jesus, by his death and resurection dealt a true death-blow (head wound) to satan and his legions.
     
  8. kyredneck

    kyredneck
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    10,569
    Likes Received:
    276
    Excellent percho, very pertinent passage. Notice also, 'the children [of Zion] were partakers of flesh and blood', so did Christ likewise. He's the firstborn among many brethren because He's the first to rise from the grave, not the first one born from above. So many today miss the wonderful truths surrounding the spiritual Zion and her children.

    But the Jerusalem that is above is free, which is our mother. Gal 4:26

    ....It behoveth you to be born from above; the Spirit where he willeth doth blow, and his voice thou dost hear, but thou hast not known whence he cometh, and whither he goeth; thus is every one who hath been born of the Spirit.`Jn 3:7,8

    Christ was not implementing a new thing in Jn 3, He was revealing a mystery from of old, something that had always been.
     
    #8 kyredneck, Jan 17, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 17, 2013
  9. thomas15

    thomas15
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    1,456
    Likes Received:
    0
    With a little help from the Roman Government, Roman Courts and the Roman Military.
     
  10. kyredneck

    kyredneck
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    10,569
    Likes Received:
    276
    It was not 'the Roman Government, Roman Courts, Roman Military' that the Spirit convicted of the crime, it was the apostate ecclesiastical system of the Jews, through the testimony of His witnesses, of the murder of the Righteous One, and declared Him indeed to be righteous. Take note, in all these examples given, of the redundancy of the message from the Comforter to the Jews; YOU KILLED HIM, BUT GOD RAISED HIM FROM THE DEAD.

    Acts 2:
    4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance
    14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and spake forth unto them, saying, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and give ear unto my words.
    22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God unto you by mighty works and wonders and signs which God did by him in the midst of you, even as ye yourselves know;
    23 him, being delivered up by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye by the hand of lawless men did crucify and slay:
    24 whom God raised up, having loosed the pangs of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
    36 Let all the house of Israel therefore know assuredly, that God hath made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom ye crucified.40 And with many other words he testified, and exhorted them, saying, Save yourselves from this crooked generation.

    Acts 3:
    12 And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this man? or why fasten ye your eyes on us, as though by our own power or godliness we had made him to walk?
    13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Servant Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied before the face of Pilate, when he had determined to release him.14 But ye denied the Holy and Righteous One, and asked for a murderer to be granted unto you,
    15 and killed the Prince of life; whom God raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.
    23 And it shall be, that every soul that shall not hearken to that prophet, shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.

    Acts 4:
    8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders,
    9 if we this day are examined concerning a good deed done to an impotent man, by what means this man is made whole;
    10 be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even in him doth this man stand here before you whole.

    Acts 5:
    27 And when they had brought them, they set them before the council. And the high priest asked them,
    28 saying, We strictly charged you not to teach in this name: and behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your teaching, and intend to bring this man`s blood upon us.
    29 But Peter and the apostles answered and said, We must obey God rather than men.
    30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew, hanging him on a tree.
    31 Him did God exalt with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, to give repentance to Israel, and remission of sins.
    32 And we are witnesses of these things; and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

    Acts 6:
    8 And Stephen, full of grace and power, wrought great wonders and signs among the people.
    9 But there arose certain of them that were of the synagogue called the synagogue of the Libertines, and of the Cyrenians, and of the Alexandrians, and of them of Cilicia and Asia, disputing with Stephen.
    10 And they were not able to withstand the wisdom and the Spirit by which he spake.
    15 And all that sat in the council, fastening their eyes on him, saw his face as it had been the face of an angel.

    Acts 7:
    51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Spirit: as your fathers did, so do ye.
    52 Which of the prophets did not your fathers persecute? and they killed them that showed before of the coming of the Righteous One; of whom ye have now become betrayers and murderers;
    53 ye who received the law as it was ordained by angels, and kept it not.
    55 But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
    56 and said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of Man standing on the right hand of God. Acts 7

    Acts 10:
    39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the country of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom also they slew, hanging him on a tree.
    40 Him God raised up the third day, and gave him to be made manifest,
    41 not to all the people, but unto witnesses that were chosen before of God, even to us, who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead.
    42 And he charged us to preach unto the people, and to testify that this is he who is ordained of God to be the Judge of the living and the dead.

    Acts 13:
    16 And Paul stood up, and beckoning with the hand said, Men of Israel, and ye that fear God, hearken:
    27 For they that dwell in Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath, fulfilled them by condemning him.
    28 And though they found no cause of death in him, yet asked they of Pilate that he should be slain.
    29 And when they had fulfilled all things that were written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a tomb.
    30 But God raised him from the dead:
    31 and he was seen for many days of them that came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are now his witnesses unto the people.
     
    #10 kyredneck, Jan 17, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 17, 2013
  11. thomas15

    thomas15
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    1,456
    Likes Received:
    0
    Actually, it was a combination of sinful men. It is really just that simple.
     
  12. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    6,890
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes it was, and it did include Roman involvement, as the "ruling political" power they carried out such executions, which served their purpose to assist in maintaining the pax romana. From our point of view all of mankind was involved.
     
  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    17,134
    Likes Received:
    52
    Actually, ALL of us crucified jesus, for ALL of us are sinners!
     
  14. HisWitness

    HisWitness
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,483
    Likes Received:
    0
    I do find it rather interesting a comment Paul made to the Romans and as we all know it was after Christ was crucified and Rose and Ascended,

    Romans 16-20: And the God of peace SHALL BRUISE SATAN under your(Romans who he was talking too)feet SHORTLY.

    now that verse states Satan had NOT yet been BRUISED and that he was SHORTLY gonna be BRUISED not only under the roman saints feet but ALL Saints feet.

    Interesting text i do believe :)
     
  15. thomas15

    thomas15
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    1,456
    Likes Received:
    0
    Not to be combative and please pardon my clumsy writing style but in post #6 you give approval to what Herr kyredneck stated and now you want to put the brusing future to the writing of the book of Romans. That would place it somewhere between say AD70 and future to today---when in your opinion?

    Lost on this observation is the fact that the discussion in question took place in the garden of eden, centuries before and with the flood of Noah between that time that and the first Hebrew appearing on the scene. Question what about all those false god worshippers that have been the majority since Adams son Cain was born? Wouldn't you think that they share in some the the blame of the events of the first Good Friday?


    So tell us HisWitness, what is the key that unlocks this mystery?
     
  16. HisWitness

    HisWitness
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,483
    Likes Received:
    0
    I just said i found it interesting that statement was made by Paul--Does it bother you that much that The Apostle Paul said Satan was too be SHORTLY bruised under the feet of the saints--in no manner am i trying to say someone is wrong in this manner--Just made a statement--after all the statement was made and we must deal with it and its meaning :)
     
  17. kyredneck

    kyredneck
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    10,569
    Likes Received:
    276
    This is not about who was involved, it's about who gets the blame.

    What I said was:

    "It was not 'the Roman Government, Roman Courts, Roman Military' that the Spirit convicted of the crime...."

    'The Roman Government, Roman Courts, Roman Military' were but a tool for the Jews:

    22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God unto you by mighty works and wonders and signs which God did by him in the midst of you, even as ye yourselves know;
    23 him, being delivered up by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye by the hand of lawless men did crucify and slay:

    In fact the Spirit goes so far as to remind those Jews:

    ...his Servant Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied before the face of Pilate, when he had determined to release him. But ye denied the Holy and Righteous One, and asked for a murderer to be granted unto you, Acts 3:13,14

    It wasn't to Rome or to the Romans that the Prophet was referring to here:

    34 Therefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: some of them shall ye kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city:
    35 that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of Abel the righteous unto the blood of Zachariah son of Barachiah, whom ye slew between the sanctuary and the altar.
    36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
    37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, that killeth the prophets, and stoneth them that are sent unto her! how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
    38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. Mt 23

    Nor was it to Rome or to the Romans that the Prophet was referring to here:

    23 Woe unto them that are with child and to them that give suck in those days! for there shall be great distress upon the land, and wrath unto this people.
    32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all things be accomplished. Lk 21

    It wasn't to Rome or to the Romans that Peter, the apostle to the Jews, was referring to here:

    And with many other words he testified, and exhorted them, saying, Save yourselves from this crooked generation. Acts 2:40

    Or here:

    22 Moses indeed said, A prophet shall the Lord God raise up unto you from among your brethren, like unto me. To him shall ye hearken in all things whatsoever he shall speak unto you.
    23 And it shall be, that every soul that shall not hearken to that prophet, shall be utterly destroyed from among the people. Acts 3
     
    #17 kyredneck, Jan 17, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 17, 2013
  18. HisWitness

    HisWitness
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,483
    Likes Received:
    0
    :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
    Great post :)

    Jesus came for his own(JEWS) they rejected him and had him crucified(JEWS)
    Judgement came upon them(JEWS) in AD70 with the destruction of the city and temple and deaths of ALOT of them(JEWS)
     
  19. kyredneck

    kyredneck
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    10,569
    Likes Received:
    276
    This is not about who was involved, it's about who gets the blame.

    What I said was:

    "It was not 'the Roman Government, Roman Courts, Roman Military' that the Spirit convicted of the crime...."

    'The Roman Government, Roman Courts, Roman Military' were but a tool for the Jews:

    22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God unto you by mighty works and wonders and signs which God did by him in the midst of you, even as ye yourselves know;
    23 him, being delivered up by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye by the hand of lawless men did crucify and slay:

    In fact the Spirit goes so far as to remind those Jews:

    ...his Servant Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied before the face of Pilate, when he had determined to release him. But ye denied the Holy and Righteous One, and asked for a murderer to be granted unto you, Acts 3:13,14

    It wasn't to Rome or to the Romans that the Prophet was referring to here:

    34 Therefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: some of them shall ye kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city:
    35 that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of Abel the righteous unto the blood of Zachariah son of Barachiah, whom ye slew between the sanctuary and the altar.
    36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
    37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, that killeth the prophets, and stoneth them that are sent unto her! how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
    38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. Mt 23

    Nor was it to Rome or to the Romans that the Prophet was referring to here:

    23 Woe unto them that are with child and to them that give suck in those days! for there shall be great distress upon the land, and wrath unto this people.
    32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all things be accomplished. Lk 21

    It wasn't to Rome or to the Romans that Peter, the apostle to the Jews, was referring to here:

    And with many other words he testified, and exhorted them, saying, Save yourselves from this crooked generation. Acts 2:40

    Or here:

    22 Moses indeed said, A prophet shall the Lord God raise up unto you from among your brethren, like unto me. To him shall ye hearken in all things whatsoever he shall speak unto you.
    23 And it shall be, that every soul that shall not hearken to that prophet, shall be utterly destroyed from among the people. Acts 3

    [edit to add]:

    It was not the citizens of Rome that made this solemn vow:

    And all the people answered and said, His blood be on us, and on our children. Mt 27:25
     
    #19 kyredneck, Jan 31, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 31, 2013
  20. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    9,031
    Likes Received:
    0
    This is only peripherally related to the OP, but I think it's interesting. There is a denomination which calls itself the Two-Seed-In-The-Spirit Predestinarian Baptist.

    A Google search will provide plenty of information, but here's one website for you:

    http://www.guidedbiblestudies.com/library/twoseed.htm

    Here's a quote from the website:
    There are only four such churches: Two in Texas, one in Indiana and one in Tennessee.

    Now back to the OP.
     

Share This Page

Loading...