The 70th Week of Daniels Prophecy

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by OldRegular, Jun 7, 2015.

  1. OldRegular

    OldRegular
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    22,678
    Likes Received:
    53
    Well, well, well! In my last post on the thread, The Messianic Kingdom, I predicted that thread would be closed prematurely, and it has been. I was in the process of preparing a discussion of Daniel 9:26, 27 so the only thing I can do is start a new thread.

    The theology regarding Daniel’s 70th week is not trivial, rather it is of utmost importance because it is falsely used to support a doctrine of the Second Coming of Jesus Christ. The significance of correctly understanding Daniel’s 70th week is demonstrated when a member of this BB insists that the anti-Christ will accomplish that which Jesus Christ could not accomplish through HIS propitiatory sacrifice on the Roman Cross. The following was repeatedly posted on the thread The Messianic Kingdom.


    I have shown in several previous posts {#’s 116, 239. 240 248, and 260 of the thread, The Messianic Kingdom} that the six conditions listed in Daniel 9:24 were accomplished through the sacrificial death of Jesus Christ. No attempt was made to rebut those posts.


    What does Scripture really tells us about Daniel’s 70th week? Definitely not what the pre-trib dispensational doctrine claims.

    Daniel 9:26,27, KJV
    26. And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof [shall be] with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

    27. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


    Consider the sentence that composes Verse 26: And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof [shall be] with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. There are two clauses:

    The primary clause is: And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself:.

    The secondary clause is: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof [shall be] with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

    Consider first the secondary clause. We know from history that the events described in this clause happened in 70AD when the Roman armies destroyed both the city of Jerusalem and the Temple. This was the fulfillment in time of the promise of Jesus Christ in Matthew 24. The people and the prince of that Roman Army are long since dead.

    Consider now the primary clause: And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: In verse 26 we are told that AFTER 62 weeks Jesus Christ {the Messiah} shall be cut off, murdered, but not for Himself. In verse 9:25 we are told that 7 weeks have already passed so that means that AFTER 69 weeks Jesus Christ shall be murdered. The word AFTER is not an addition but is in the Hebrew text. Most important we know from the wording of this passage that Jesus Christ was murdered by Rome during the 70th week of Daniel’s prophecy. We also know from Scripture that Jesus Christ is not dead, as are those who destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple, but that HE lives!

    But all this is according to prophecy and in the following Scripture we learn the reason for the murder of Jesus, the Messiah. In Isaiah 53:8 we are told: He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. In Daniel 9:26 we see fulfillment of Isaiah 53, the death of Jesus Christ for the MANY people of God.

    Now consider Verse 9:27:

    The popular KJV reads: And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

    The very literal NASB reads: And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate.”

    But now consider what the Young”s Literal translation says: And he hath strengthened a covenant with many--one week, and in the midst of the week he causeth sacrifice and present to cease, and by the wing of abominations he is making desolate, even till the consummation, and that which is determined is poured on the desolate one.’

    And then there is the translation provided by a BB member in his post #244 from an unnamed interlinear: and he has mastery covenant to the many ones seven one and half of the seven he shall cause to cease sacrifice and present offering and on wing of abominations one making desolate and until finish and one being decided she shall be poured forth on one being desolate.

    Notice that the Young’s translation and the interlinear the much abused for is not there. Now an unnamed person says of this addition:

    It is true that translators often add words to make reading of the Scripture easier. However if the addition of those words change the meaning of the Word of God they are wrong. The addition of the word for has been used by people to totally destroy what GOD was saying to the MANY through the prophet Daniel. Perhaps the first of these was a Jesuit priest.

    In verse 27 we are told that HE, the Messiah of verse 26, not the long since dead prince of verse 26 as some claim, shall cause a Covenant to prevail with the MANY during the final week of Daniel's prophecy, no reference to Jew or Israel, but to MANY! In verse 27 we are told exactly when HE, Jesus Christ or Jesus the Messiah, shall be murdered, the middle of the 70th week. What is certain is that the slaughter of Jesus Christ in the middle of the 70th week initiated the New Covenant and brought to an end the institution of the provisional blood sacrifice of animals, and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease.. That New Covenant was not for one week but for eternity.

    Further blood offerings in the Temple by wicked men, complicit with Rome in the murder of Jesus the Messiah, were an abomination before GOD as I have stated many times and as Scripture tells us in Proverbs 21:27: The sacrifice of the wicked is abomination: how much more, when he bringeth it with a wicked mind?

    Where did this false doctrine regarding Daniel’s 70th week originate? History tells us:


    The mindless meanderings of a Jesuit priest, obeying the Teaching Magisterium of Roman Catholicism, is a sorry teaching to base anything on. But that and the teaching of John Nelson Darby provide the basis for pre-trib-mythology!
     
  2. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    13,377
    Likes Received:
    728
    Some posters cannot let this scriptures pass because they have no position without forcing an anti christ to be found here.

    it is obvious by the closed thread that some posters cannot understand Hebrews is for all Christians either.....so they resort to monster strawman argument s
     
  3. OldRegular

    OldRegular
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    22,678
    Likes Received:
    53
    And then there is this:

     
  4. OldRegular

    OldRegular
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    22,678
    Likes Received:
    53
    One reason I have always loved the Book of Hebrews is that it ties everything in the Bible together and enables us to understand things we otherwise might miss!

    DHK and his ilk also ignore Scripture like the following!

    2 Timothy 3:16. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
     
  5. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    13,377
    Likes Received:
    728
    yes...once dan 9 falls ...the whole dispensationalism idea is foiled......mt 21 and eph 2 put it in the grave.

    Hebrews 12 speaks of us hearing from Jesus speaking from heaven....us receiving a Kingdom......now
     
  6. beameup

    beameup
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2011
    Messages:
    915
    Likes Received:
    2
    We have been warned by our Apostle:

    And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.

    For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits;
    that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.
    And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

    Romans 11:23, 25, 26
     
  7. OldRegular

    OldRegular
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    22,678
    Likes Received:
    53
    The Deliverer came out of Zion 2000 years ago! The Jews conspired with Rome to murder HIM!
     
  8. revmwc

    revmwc
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    4,037
    Likes Received:
    69
    Daniel 9:24-27 from interlinear,

    24 Sevens seventy he is segregated on people of you and on city of holiness of you to -to detain the transgression and to -to seal of and to – to finish bring of sins sin and to – to make propitiatory shelter of depravity and to – to bring of reighteousness of eons and to – to seal of visions and prophet and to - to anoint of holiness of holinesses


    This is the key to the whole portion here, these things are "segregated on people of you and on city of holiness of you" The people of you Daniel's people and upon the "city of holiness of you" that would be Daniels peoples Holy City and that is Jerusalem.

    We go back to the question when have the Jews and Jerusalem seen the following:

    to detain the transgression - So you believe the Jewish people have seen the detaining of their transgression as well as Jerusalem?

    and to -to seal of and to – to finish bring of sins sin - And you see that the Jews and Jerusalem have see an end to sin.

    and to – to make propitiatory shelter of depravity - And you see that the Jews as a people have accepted the propitiatory shelter of depravity that is the sacrificial blood of Christ and it affected the city too?

    and to – to bring of reighteousness of eons - And you see that the Jews have righteousness which is everlasting and the city, which the Hebrew word used for Everlasting is "owlam" which means long duration ,antiquity, futurity, for ever, everlasting, evermore, perpetual, old ancient, world, ad you see that the Jews and the Holy City Jerusalem have received these?


    and to – to seal of visions and prophet and to - to seal prophecy you believe the Prophecy for the Jews as well as God's promises to them have been sealed and therefore God will not fulfill what He promised for the Jewish people and the City of Jerusalem? What would that make God if He fails to carry out one Promise HE made to the Jewish people and for their, Daniels Holy City?

    - to anoint of holiness of holinesses - To anoint the Holiness of Holinesses, you believe that the Holy of Holy's exist today and has been anointed? That would mean that the Temple exist for the Holiness of Holinesses to be anointed it must exist and right now it doesn't exist. But it will in the 1000 year Kingdom.

    So do you believe all of this has been "segregated on people of you and on city of holiness of you" that upon Daniel's people thus the Jews as a people and the city Jerusalem?
     
  9. OldRegular

    OldRegular
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    22,678
    Likes Received:
    53
    I have posted what Scripture shows to be true. On more than one occasion I have shown where each of those six conditions were accomplished through the sacrificial death of Jesus Christ. Neither you or anyone else responded. So answer me this! Do you believe the following statement by an unnamed moderator from his post #70 on the thread, The Messianic Kingdom..

    I have taken the liberty of bolding the last statement.

    You ask a lot of questions but answer none!
     
  10. revmwc

    revmwc
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    4,037
    Likes Received:
    69


    We saw in verse 24 from the interlinear that all these things must happen to the People of Daniel and to the Holy City of Daniel which is Jerusalem and that just has not occurred, now let's pick back up with the interlinear,

    25 and you shall know and you shall be intelligent from faring forth of word to return of and to build of Jerusalem until anointed one governor sevens seven and sevens sixty and two she shall return and she is built square and salient and in constraint of the eras

    From the command to rebuild Jerusalem until the anonited one comes shall be sevens seven and sevens sixty and two, in others words 69 weeks, that makes it 483 years.


    26 and after the sevens sixty and two he shall be cut off anointed on and there is no to him and the city and the sanctuary he shall ruin people of the governor the one coming and end of him in overflowing and until end war being decided ones being desolate.

    And after the sevens sixty and two, that is the hinder part of the 69th week the anointed one would be cutoff in other words at the end of the 69th week, the Messiah would be cutoff. Many Bible Scholars have gone back and shown that Christ Triumphal entry, the day we call Palm Sunday, the day in which Christ entered the City and offered Himself as the Messiah, only a few days later He was crucified that is cutoff during at the hinder part of the 483rd year, not in the 486 1/2th year nor was it the 490th year, it was the 483rd year the hinder part of that year and that fulfilled Daniels prophecy.

    Then we see that "the people of the governor the one coming and end of him in overflowing and until end war being decided ones being desolate."

    The Roman armies came and destroyed Jerusalem A.D. 70 but we must see verse 27 occur,

    27 and he has mastery covenant to the many ones seven one and half of the seven he shall cause to cease sacrifice and present offering and on wing of abominations one making desolate and until finish and one being decided she shall be poured forth on one being desolate.

    The governor of the people who will come "he has mastery covenant
    to the many ones seven." That is he makes a mastery covenant over many people for seven years, that is he becomes the dictator over many. But during that 7 year covenant, "one and half of the seven he shall cause to cease sacrifice and present offering and on wing of abominations one making desolate."
    This is very clear what we see in Revelation 6-19, the dictator comes presenting peace.
    Revelation Chapter 6:2 “And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.”
    We see the Horsemen come. The first on a white horse. He has a bow in his hand. A crown on his head. He goes forth conquering and to conquer. The white horse symbolizes peace and victory. The rider is the Beast of the Revived Roman Empire."

    This is the governor who comes to make the mastery covenant with many and breaks that covenant of peace 3 1/2 years into it. This cannot be Christ
     
  11. OldRegular

    OldRegular
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    22,678
    Likes Received:
    53
    The above post is comical. You fail to distinguish between the interlinear and your comments. You quote an interlinear which you fail to identify as I have requested earlier.

    Just answer the question I posed in my initial response:

    Then you might respond to the Scripture where I showed that through HIS death on the Cross Jesus Christ fulfilled all six conditions of Daniel 9:24!
     
  12. revmwc

    revmwc
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    4,037
    Likes Received:
    69
    So if I failed you fail too, several line spaces differentiate my comments from the interlinear, that should be clear to almost anyone.

    This is Michigan-Claremont-Westminster Electronic Hebrew Bible, interlinear. Also checked against and they used the BHS,

    Now in verse 24 in the strongs based on the BHS the word people is from Hebrew 'am meaning, nation, people, person's member's of one's people, compatriot's, country men, kinsman, kindred, so guess who these things concern, Daniel's national people and his KINDRED. Again you have shown no scriptural reference to where all these things have occurred for the nation of Daniel, that is Israel.
    The word tamam used for as in the KJV means to be finished, to be completed, so when has Israel's sin as a nation been completed, been finished?

    Then there is the word Kaphar which in the KJV is the word reconciliation, and means to cover, purge to make and atonement, so when was nation Israel iniquity atoned for and therefore forgiven and she restored as a nation?

    Then we see 'olam everlasting, perpetual, so when has national Israel ever received a perpetual righteousness?

    Then the word chatham to seal, seal up affix a seal, when has Israel had the prophecy concerning all things sealed up, Paul stated God was not through with Her, Prophecy for her must be carried out and literally fulfilled, it has not been sealed up, if so when?

    When has the qodseh Holy as the Holy city, and the most Holy, it means several agents are sacred, it can mean the holiness of God, Holiness of places, such as Jerusalem here and of things as we saw in the interlinear, the Holy of Holiness.

    Then in verse 27 we see the word beriyth covenant or alliance, or pledge, between men in a treaty, or ordinance between a monarch to subjects, it can also be between God and man thus a covenant with many for one echad has several meanings including one but here is an interesting one, a certain. Followed by shabua, seven a period of seven this is not the word heptad which means sevens of seven, but a period of 7 or a week of sevens. But we are told in the midst that is chetsiy half or middle, he will break the covenant of peace and overspread the obinations he shallll make it desolate even until the kalah consumation in the KJV, means completion or termination, full end. The charat to cut or sharpen used as determined in the KJV, shall be nathak to pour out shamem to be desolate, what is made desolate?

    The covenant between the governor and the many, and it involves the sacrifices that are being made. So this again would show that if this is Christ, then HE violates a 7 year covenant or it is the anti-christ who violates the peace covenant and sets up that which completes the desolation of the Temple.

    You say it is Christ who breaks the covenant and makes the Holy of Holies desolate. Yet these seventy weeks were to bring Israel as a nation to salvation and complete her having been set aside as a nation, the anointing of the Holy of Holies as we see in verse 24, so which is it to you?

    Is Christ going to break a covenant and destroy the peace treaty or is it the anti-christ?
     
  13. revmwc

    revmwc
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    4,037
    Likes Received:
    69

    where in this thread have you posted scripture where these 6 conditions were accomplished?
     
  14. revmwc

    revmwc
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    4,037
    Likes Received:
    69
    In the other thread post 143 I did respond to them you just ignored or missed them.


    The last point #5 shows how God has progressively dealt with mankind. He dealt with the Jews through prophecy and sacrifice. He deals with us by having the Holy Spirit indwell us and show us scripture.
     
  15. OldRegular

    OldRegular
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    22,678
    Likes Received:
    53
    I posted it several times in the thread The Messianic Kingdom. Neither you or the unnamed moderator addressed those Scripture. In fact neither of you would answer the following questions:

     
  16. OldRegular

    OldRegular
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    22,678
    Likes Received:
    53
    You are using the same slimy tactics that DHK does. That is what you pre-tribbers do. You cannot debate the Scripture you slime those who differ with you.
     
  17. OldRegular

    OldRegular
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    22,678
    Likes Received:
    53
    Looking at post 143 it is difficult to see that you responded to anything. Learn to use the quote feature.

    You make the same mistake DHK does, you think that the OT is written exclusively for the Jews and no one else. There are several places in the New Testament where OT prophecy is shown to be fulfilled in the Church {Acts 2:15ff and Acts15:15ff.

    I show in the OP that the dispensational concept of the 70th week of Daniel is nonsense out of the mind of a Jesuit priest. I also show by Scripture that Jesus Christ died During the 70th week making the offerings of the Jews in the Temple useless. Refute those truths in English!
     
  18. revmwc

    revmwc
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    4,037
    Likes Received:
    69
    So explain this:
    From the BHS interlinear,

    24 Sevens seventy he is segregated on people of you and on city of holiness of you to -to detain the transgression and to -to seal of and to – to finish bring of sins sin and to – to make propitiatory shelter of depravity and to – to bring of reighteousness of eons and to – to seal of visions and prophet and to - to anoint of holiness of holinesses.

    Who are the people of you in this passage?

    Whose people are they?
     
  19. OldRegular

    OldRegular
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    22,678
    Likes Received:
    53
    If you will go back to post #10 you will see that everything is red. Learn to use the quote feature.
     
  20. DHK

    DHK
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    134
    Post #10 is revmwc's post. Both of you have posted in red.

    Regardless, the thread was closed before you had a chance to respond to the last post:

    http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2231411&postcount=261

    Part of which is here:
    The most important thing to understand is the context.
    70 weeks are determined upon THY people and THY holy city.

    Who were those people and whose city was it?
    That answer is obvious. Since the people of Daniel are the nation of Israel we know that the following phrases in verse 24 do not have to do with the benefits of the cross nor the imputation of righteousness. They have to do with the fulfillment of promises directly related to the nation of Israel--the people of Daniel.

    When one takes away the context of the passage they are bound to come to a wrong conclusion.
     

Share This Page

Loading...