The Abundant Life

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by LeBuick, Aug 6, 2006.

  1. LeBuick

    LeBuick
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    One of my young preachers preached this today as salvation. Thoughts?

    Jn:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
     
  2. TaterTot

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    Get outta my head!! I saw a post the other day, I think it was TinyTim that said that the abundant life begins when we enter eternity. I have to disagree because of John 10:10. I think it is meant for us to enjoy the abundant life while living on earth.
     
  3. Joseph_Botwinick

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    Please give your definition of abundant life.

    Thanks,

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  4. TaterTot

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    (How'd I know that was coming?)

    To me an abundant life is one that is characterized by peacefulness, contentment, and joy, in all circumstances. I dont mean materially, although I dont think material wealth is wrong per se.
     
  5. LeBuick

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    I've been preparing to speak to him. Strongs list the word as "perissos" which is defined as

    "from <G4012> (peri) (in the sense of beyond); superabundant (in quantity) or superior (in quality); by implication excessive; adverb (with <G1537> (ek)) violently; neuter (as noun) preeminence :- exceeding abundantly above, more abundantly, advantage, exceedingly, very highly, beyond measure, more, superfluous, vehement [-ly]."

    It does sort of fall in line with the rest of the chapter (scratches head) I've always veiwed this as Jesus contrasting a thief or satan who takes life to himself who gives life. I've accepted abundant to be richer and fuller (spiritual not necessarily materially). Yes, you can say eternal with a caveot that begins here in this life.

    Maybe I'll pull him in Wednesday and let him explain it to me... He must have gotten it from a book, anyone know which it might be?
     
  6. Joseph_Botwinick

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    That sounds like glorification to me. Tell me something. Are you peaceful, content, and joyful in all situations? Did God fail? No. We still have pain and sorrow in this life because we still struggle with the sin nature, just as Paul did.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  7. Brother Bob

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    The world is full of rich people who have much more than we do. If it meant things in this life then looks like we missed it somewhere. The widow who cast in the 2 mites. The rich man who was going to tear down his barns. The two who went up on the mountain to pray. Sorry but I always took it to mean Salvation myself. So, you have to take me behind the barn also. If it meant things of this life where does the theif fit in? :)
     
  8. LeBuick

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    First, we need to separate worldly riches from being heavenly blessed. The women with the, "2 mites" was blessed far more than others. Her heart had a spirit of giving.

    Yes, the after life is part of the Abundant life, however, I believe the Abundant life begins when one receives the Lord as their saviour. In other words, I never took it as exclusively salvation.

    The theif, who I think we can agree is Satan, came for three reasons, "The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy". I don't see that as Steal your salvation, kill your salvation and destroy your salvation.

    My salvation is secure and can't be stolen by satan. He may cause me to loose a reward or two but my salvation is secure. There are things of this life that satan will try and take from you. Joy, peace, long suffering, gentleness and ven my faith.

    Please Bro Bob, before I take you behind the barn, how do you derive exclusively salvation?
     
  9. PastorSBC1303

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    You can have joy, peace and contentment in the midst of terrible situations.
     
  10. Marcia

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    Actually, that was me who said that (and then tinytim agreed), but I was saying that the abundant life is the eternal life we have in Christ which begins now, from the moment of salvation.

    I don't think you can say it necessarily has to do with enjoying life now when you think of those who are persectued, tortured and killed for their faith. How do you tell someone who may get killed for their faith that they will have an abundant life on earth?

    I agree with those who said it includes the peace and joy of knowing Christ while on earth.
     
    #10 Marcia, Aug 7, 2006
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  11. PastorSBC1303

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    Read in the book of Acts while the early church was persecuted they were joyful and living what I would claim is the abundant life. All the while their lives were in danger.

    It is not our place to tell someone in that position they are living the abundant life. Yet, in the midst of that persecution they can live in peace, joy, and contentment. That does not mean all do, but I do believe it is quite possible.
     
  12. LeBuick

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    Keep in mind, the Church should have a different value system. We should not value our treasure in earthly things. What is the worst the world can do? Death? Persecution will get you more rewards and Jesus taught us it is not really you that is being persecuted. Death, death is simply our train ride home which we believe to be a better place. And to wear the badge of a martyr.... Thanks you Lord Jesus...

    As PastorSBC said, when you read of the times of martyrdom even with the early Church fathers like Polycarp, they lived such an abundant life that they persuaded others to partake of that same life.
     
  13. Brother Bob

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    I really think the following Scripture go along with Jn 10
    Sometimes we use stories to get across Salvation that might not exactly mean that but becometh sound doctrine. I think the prodical son is a good Scripture to show going out in sin and you must come back. In reality, it may mean Israel. But again, I find no fault with the young preacher using the scripture to show Salvation.

    I am come in John 10 seems to mean what did He come for?

    In John 18, it tells why He came, so I find they coinside with each other. The seed being choked in the following Scripture no doubt was Satan.

    John, chapter 18
    "37": Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I

    born, and for this cause came I into the world that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.
    KJMatt.13
    "4": And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:

    "5": Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no

    deepness of earth:
    "6": And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.

    7": And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them: ( I think was the devil that choked them)

    "8": But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.

    "9": Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

    Maybe I am missing something.
     
    #13 Brother Bob, Aug 7, 2006
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  14. Marcia

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    Well, they can't live the abundant life long on earth if they are killed within days of becoming a Christian!

    But I totally agree with you, PastorSBC :smilewinkgrin: -- what I was trying to counter is what I hear so often from Christians said to unbelievers or new believers: "God has a wonderful plan for your life." Now, that may be true -- and we all have a wonderful future with Him.

    But, I ask, how is an unbeliever or new believer going to interpret this? They will think it means that life will be rosy, or nothing can go wrong, or they will be happy all the time. Don't you think a lot of Christians think this?

    So I think Christians have to be very careful when using the phrase "abundant life" so that it is not implying all will go well and smoothly.
     
  15. Joseph_Botwinick

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    This is true that it is possible for the Christians. It is also, however, possible to have sorrow, sadness, and weakness in the midst of terrible situations. This does not mean that I have not been saved.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  16. canadyjd

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    The "Abundant Life" Jesus is referring to is the result salvation. It is both present and future. It is about a life reconciled to God, abiding in His presence through indwelling Holy Spirit. It is about a new life of service to Jesus and His cause on the earth.

    It doesn't have to be free from problems to be abundant and joyful.

    peace to you:praying:
     
  17. PastorSBC1303

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    First, I would never question your salvation.

    Second, maybe I am just strange, but in some of the worst times of my life that were filled sorrow, sadness, and weakness, I found that I had a tremendous joy, peace and contentment.
     
  18. TaterTot

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    Yes, there are times when I do not feel happy and have been terribly hurting or sad. But the "abundant" life ios one that means that those feelings are not the end in themselves. I still have joy when I am not happy.
     
  19. TaterTot

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    Thats a great way to put it. My darkest times have been the times of the most growth.
     
  20. LeBuick

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    An Old preacher preached this Sunday about how one is strengthened in the storms of life. "Test prove progress" was his subject. Great message....

    Then comes the morning... Even if you weep all night there is still hope in the morning.
     

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