The BEFORE and the AFTER of being born-again

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by evangelist-7, Feb 11, 2013.

  1. evangelist-7

    evangelist-7
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    - BEFORE --------------------- BORN AGAIN ------ AFTER
    • man is NOT able to choose -- due to: ------- • man IS able to choose
    - spiritual life (Note-1) ---- God’s gift of --- spiritual life (Note-4)
    • God chose (elected) -------- grace-faith --- • man chooses to be fully
    - whomever He wished --------- (Note 3)--------- sanctified (or not to be)
    - (Note-2) ------------------------------------- (Note-5)


    Note-1
    Man is unnable to choose spiritual life because:
    -- he is spiritually blind and deaf … Matthew 13:13-15, John 9:39, John 12:37-40.
    -- he is spiritually dead in his trespasses and sins … Eph 2:1-5, Eph 4:18, Colossians 2:13.
    -- he is at enmity with God (an enemy of God) … Romans 8:7, Ephesians 2:15-16.
    -- he sees the gospel as utter foolishness … 1 Corinthians 1:18.

    Note-2
    The people God elected were chosen according to His foreknowledge … 1 Peter 1:1-2.
    He predestined them and chose them before the foundation of the world … Ephesians 1:4-5.
    The election of grace had nothing to do with any of the OT-type of works … Romans 11:5-6.
    He predestined according to His purpose and according to His will … Ephesians 1:11.
    His choice was by mercy and compassion, not by what anyone had done … Romans 9:15-16.
    He had mercy on whom He wished, and He hardened whom He wished … Romans 9:18.
    He prepared vessels of mercy beforehand, and called them, all for His glory … Romans 9:23.
    Those whom had been appointed to eternal life believe in the gospel … Acts 13:48.
    IMO, our English word “believe” in the NT really means: believe, trust, follow, and obey.
    Those who make it through to the end are the called, chosen, and faithful … Revelation 17:14.

    Note-3
    Jesus said that one needs to be born-again to be in the kingdom of God … John 3:3-5.
    God accomplishes this by giving His gift of grace-faith to some … Ephesians 2:8-9.
    And He gives (draws) these ones to Jesus … John 6:37-65, 10:29, 17:2, 17:9, 17:24.
    This enables them to believe, be born-again, receive eternal life … John 3:16, 3:36, 5:24.
    They have been given the Holy Spirit to live inside of them … John 14:16-17,14:26; Romans 8:11;
    1 Corinthians 3:16; Galatians 4:6; 2 Timothy 1:14; 1 John 3:24; 1 John 4:12-16.
    They have been born-again with an incorruptible seed … 1 Peter 1:23.
    They are a new creation in Christ … 2 Corinthians 5:17.

    Note-4
    Man is able to choose to continue his spiritual life because he has the Holy Spirit
    inside of him … leading, guiding, teaching, revealing spiritual truth, etc.


    Note-5
    The elect were chosen “for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit” … 2 Thessalonians 2:13.
    Man is required to undergo progressive sanctification … Rom 8:14; 1 Cor 1:18; Heb 2:11, 10:14.
    IMO, every redeemed born-again person has undergone some of the sanctification process,
    but he/she really needs to co-operate with God’s Spirit in being sanctified unto holiness.


    The big question
    What are we to think about those who refuse to co-operate with the Holy Spirit in sanctification?
    There is a long list of serious warnings to the churches, such as:

    the disobedient are shut out --------- believing in vain ------ being disqualified
    the lukewarm are rejected ----------- practicing sin ----------- not continuing in the faith
    living according to the flesh --------- falling away ------------- not being an overcomer
    falling as in OT disobedience examples ------------------------- without holiness no one will see the Lord
    not working out salvation with fear and trembling --------- not remaining steadfast to the end
    being excluded from the kingdom of God (those subject to the Lord and in fellowship with Him)

    And Jesus’ warnings in the gospels
    The narrow way leading to eternal life is difficult, and few find it … Matthew 7:14.
    Those who do the will of Father God shall enter the kingdom of heaven … Matthew 7:21.
    Deny yourself (your soulish life) and follow Jesus to find eternal life ... Matthew 16:24-26.
    If you do not forgive, Father God will not forgive your trespasses … Mark 11:25-26.
    He who loves his life in this world will lose eternal life … John 12:25.
    And there are many other “hard sayings of Jesus”

    Conditional security?
    What’s with these warnings? Are they serious? Can a born-again Christian lose salvation?

    Explanation
    Some Scriptures appear to go against the above, but often they refer only to the elect.
    Was Paul writing specifically to the “faithful” brethren? … Ephesians 1:1, Colossians 1:2.
    If “believe” in the NT really means to believe, trust, follow, and obey
    … then perhaps “whosoever believes” are really only the elect.

    .
     
    #1 evangelist-7, Feb 11, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 11, 2013
  2. salzer mtn

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    YOUR QUESTION: What are we to think about those who refuse to co-operate with the Holy Spirit in sanctification? There are two answers (1) The chastening Rod, Heb 12:5-11 Notice, God chastens only those he loves in verse six, For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, which he calls son's in verse five, My son despise not the chastening of the Lord. God does not chasten those that are not his. Vese eight, But if ye be without chastisement, wherefore ALL, (meaning the saved) are partakers, then you are bastards, and not sons. This chastisement is for our profit, verse ten. This chastisement does produce results verse eleven, fruit of righteousness. Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless after ward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby. (2) Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Not only is our salvation his workmanship but we were also created in Christ Jesus unto good works, that has been ordained of God before hand.
     
    #2 salzer mtn, Feb 11, 2013
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  3. Yeshua1

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    I perfer to trust what Jesus stated, that "ALL the father give Him shall be raised up in end times, NONE shall be lost!"

    If he knows NONE can get saved and lost, why not accept Him on this?
     
  4. evangelist-7

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    Why not consider that these "ALL" are ONLY the elect?

    Jesus did NOT say ALL the Father gave Him who become born again.

    There is an incredible amount of DEEP meaning in Scripture.

    E.G. An evangelical pastor most probably preaches on a passage @ age 30
    a whole lot differently than he does @ age 60.

    The Lord rewards many years of very diligent TOTALLY-OPEN-MINDED study with more revelation!

    If one is NOT open-minded, then all bets are off.

    .
     
    #4 evangelist-7, Feb 13, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 13, 2013
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    The ONLY ones that the father gives Jesus are the Elect! NO elect will be lost, promise of Jesus!

    saints are the elect!
     
  6. evangelist-7

    evangelist-7
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    IMO, this describes ONLY the actual ELECT who make it through to the end ...

    “And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God,
    to those who are the called according to His purpose.
    For whom He foreknew, He also predestined …
    whom He predestined, these He also called;
    whom He called, these He also justified;
    and whom He justified, these He also glorified.” (Romans 8:28-30)


    IMO, God’s elect are ... foreknown >> predestined (chosen) >> called >> justified >> glorified

    Elsewhere, we've been going through a LONG analysis of Hebrews 6:4-6 and the conclusion is ...
    A BORN-AGAIN PERSON CAN FALL AWAY AND NOT BE SAVED.
    I.E. he/she never was a part of the elect in Romans 8:29-30!

    And, of course, this makes sense of (and explains) all of those serious warnings to the churches!

    This is just another one of those important spiritual Truths, which are "somewhat hidden" in the NT.
    @ the moment, the list is up to 7.

    .
     
  7. evangelist-7

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    Please note that Note-1 in the OP has been greatly expanded ...

    Note-1
    Man is unnable to choose spiritual life because:
    -- he is born with an inherited sin nature (which doesn’t help matters) … many verses
    -- he is spiritually blind and deaf … Matthew 13:13-15, John 9:39, John 12:37-40
    -- he is blinded by Satan … Acts 26:18, 2 Corinthians 4:3-4
    -- he is controlled by Satan … John 12:31, 1 John 5:19, Acts 26:18, 2 Corinthians 10:4-5
    -- he is deceived by Satan … Revelation 12:9, John 8:44, Ephesians 2:2
    -- he is a captive of Satan unto death … Hebrews 2:14-15, 1 John 3:8, Luke 4:18
    -- he is spiritually dead in his trespasses and sins … Ephesians 2:1-5, Ephesians 4:18, Colossians 2:13
    -- he sees the gospel as utter foolishness … 1 Corinthians 1:18
    -- he cannot believe the truth of the gospel (it is veiled) … 2 Corinthians 4:3

    .
     
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    God declares that ALL who are saved by His grace shall remain saved, and that NONE shall be lost, and that we have already passed from death to life!

    Why deny the truth of scripture?
     
  9. evangelist-7

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    I'll continue the discourse ... only IF you tell us WHY all of the many warnings to behave, or else!
    .
     

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