The Bible an Idol? How serious can one be?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by windcatcher, Jan 13, 2012.

  1. windcatcher

    windcatcher
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2007
    Messages:
    2,764
    Likes Received:
    0
    I was telling a friend, a youth leader, about a Bible Study I'm in on apologetics... defending our faith .... or having the answers to some of the major attacks others make as excuses for why they do not believe: Chiefly I was admitting that I went through some struggles as a youth when the church seemed to be less informed and modern education seemed to have all the answers and ...... the attacks by those with degrees and professors in college.... and esteemed by the church community in general. I was trying to encourage this person to consider that such a course as this should be an essential part of youth training along with the doctrines of faith. This person considered my concerns for a moment and then stated that [he] was concerned that some people might make an idol of the Bible.

    How serious can this be?

    Personally, I'd be more concern that some folks could make an idol of the cross, or a fish, or a particular church or building or pastor or leader......... but the Bible? Perhaps I might understand his statement had he said that some might rely upon it with superstition as in believing just carrying it provided protection.... but having a genuine desire to read it and understand it????

    What am I missing in understanding?
     
  2. agedman

    agedman
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Messages:
    4,258
    Likes Received:
    187
    I would state to him that:

    1) The bible does not just "contain" the words of God, but the Bible IS the Word of God. (John 1:1)

    2) The Word of God created all things and by the word all things exist. ( Heb 1:3, 2 Peter 3:5)

    3) The Word of God became flesh (Christ) (John 1:14)

    4) Worshiping Christ (the Word) is not a violations of the first commandment, but is actually necessary. (Psalm 119:11)

    5) A warning about hot holding the Word in esteem is found in the proverbs where it says, "Whoso despiseth the word shall be destroyed: but he that feareth the commandment shall be rewarded." (Pr 13:13)
     
  3. Oldtimer

    Oldtimer
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2011
    Messages:
    1,934
    Likes Received:
    0
    Perhaps his question results from numerous fights about the KJV. It's sad to say some participants will accuse others of turning their version into an idol. An object, that's being worshiped. I cringe every time I encounter that charge, regardless which side accuses the other.

    Perhaps this is just an excuse being put forth to avoid your suggested study for some unexplained reason. Without knowing the youth leader, this is pure speculation on my part. He doesn't want to go down your suggested path as he may know it will challenge something within his own beliefs.

    Using myself as the example, a few years ago I was a staunch believer in evolution. Thought I'd figured out how God had used evolution. A few weak oppositions led me to think there was no point in wasting my time reading more of the same. I knew better.

    That is until I was challenged in a way that forced me to search for the truth. At that moment in time I had a choice. Either do the search or find some excuse to avoid what it would take to undo 50+ years of "brain washing". It wasn't easy making that 180 degree turn.

    Perhaps you are challenging your friend in the same way I was challenged and he's looking for a way out rather than facing what he knows may lie ahead. ????
     
  4. North Carolina Tentmaker

    North Carolina Tentmaker
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2003
    Messages:
    2,355
    Likes Received:
    0
    There is a large subgroup in fundamentalism today that has done just that. Most of them would call themselves KJVO. When we put the translation or the copy above the message it contains then we are making an idol out of the Bible itself.

    I remember listening to a KJVO preacher a few years ago, he held up his Bible and said something along the lines of:

    “I believe this book is inspired”
    And I agreed with him
    “I believe every word is inspired”
    And I agreed with him
    “I believe the punctuation is inspired”
    And I said “huh”
    “I believe the index in the back is inspired”
    And I said, “is he serious?”
    “I believe the maps are inspired”
    And I began looking around to see nodding heads
    “I believe it was printed with inspired ink on paper made from an inspired tree and bound with leather tanned from an inspired cow”
    And I was surprised I was the only one laughing

    It is certainly possible to make an idol out of our church, our denomination, or even our translation if we put it ahead of God.
     
  5. blackbird

    blackbird
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2002
    Messages:
    11,898
    Likes Received:
    2
    I always use this as a rule when I'm reading the Bible

    When the Bible speaks---God speaks!!!

    The Bible is God's voice on printed page!!
     
  6. Christos doulos

    Christos doulos
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2011
    Messages:
    320
    Likes Received:
    0
    That is a possibility, but then the bible can be an idol in all aspects. Do we stop using the bible now?
     
  7. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2010
    Messages:
    8,121
    Likes Received:
    0
    He needs to elaborate on where out of what you've said he feared making the Bible an idol. Some persons are attempting to sound pious "Jesus is all you need" but if their "Jesus" doesn't match the Jesus of the Bible then there are some serious problems.

    To me, this youth leader sounds like he might be of this sort, and more into an "experiential" religion than into a Biblical walk, and a walk in truth. This of course lends toward one being able to adlib along in their "teaching" never really having to study much, and in so doing using the Bible as a proof-text to back up their experiences, not the other way around as it should be, or, allowing the Bible to guide their walk.

    I doubt what he says would be pretty if it is brought up again, and to bring it up again might get ugly, maybe, so I'd be cautious, but I wouldn't avoid it. I also don't like the "feel" I'm getting from this youth director in what you are saying here to us.

    I'd pray for the opportunity to come up again by Gods doing, and pray for His grace in that hour to answer.

    I want to ask this, can you elaborate on what you said about the Bibles esteem in the church community to this man? What type of Church is this that he is in? Is he an "entertainment" type of youth leader, or a Bible teacher (or does he simply think he's a Bible teacher)?

    I think this youth leader may not be up to parr concerning apologetics, and may have been intimidated by such a suggestion. How much Bible does this leader use or even know? It sounds as if this leader knows little Bible and has marginal respect for the Word of God. Also, a comment like his, being a youth leader, puts up a lot of red flags, but I think though that more context is also necessary here to see what the real problem here is.

    God bless you as you pray about these things.

    - Peace
     
  8. agedman

    agedman
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Messages:
    4,258
    Likes Received:
    187
    Fifty some years ago the "in thing" was to have the youth leader from nearby SBC school.

    There were a great many who had zero idea what they were doing, what they stood for (both morally and spiritually) and the only reason they were there was 1) it gave them an outside income source, 2) it looked good on a job resume', and 3) the church thought that they had to have someone "young" to so the "young" would be able to identify with them and more "young" would come.

    It was amazing how many "young" ladies would come, but not for anything Spirit minded.
     
  9. DaChaser1

    DaChaser1
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2011
    Messages:
    2,324
    Likes Received:
    0
    As Long as it does NOT involve dealing with KJVO only groups, as they do practice a form of Bible idol worship!

    Sometimes, also think that we forget that the ultimate sense of the biblcal revelation is jesus Himself, as he is the fullest revelation of God to us!
     
  10. windcatcher

    windcatcher
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2007
    Messages:
    2,764
    Likes Received:
    0
    At the church which this leader works, many translations of the Bible are used and this did not come up in the brief conversation we had.

    As I think more on this.... it is true that our conversation was brief, taking opportunity of a moments passing after services rather than taking time as in an appointment or when fewer distractions are around. I prefer to think that this was an unfortunate slip of tongue and I should add that this leader did addendum this comment with the desire to find ways of incorporating apologetics and defense of faith into the youth ciriculum.

    Without even looking up the scriptures my mind immediately thought of; in the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God: the word made flesh and dwelt amongst us; forever thy word is settled; the word ....above his name; etc... . So I did find my spirit disturbed by such comment.
    --------------
    Some other thoughts I have:
    It is far too easy for slips of the tongue.... I still have my share of in trying to say what I mean... I make a fool of myself. Yet words we say are important and do have impact on others: Our words are not inspired as in scripture.... but do carry impact ...... blessing or cursing.... life or death; I repeatedly have to mind what I say BEFORE I say it.... lest I have to repent .....and then may not be able to take back the damage done .......even if I go to the person or persons and try to correct.
    ------------------
    On another point.....
    I do find that the more I read the Bible the more it comes alive and steadys me from the discord and divisions faced in everyday living..... the more my faith in God grows and is assured, peace comes when crisis or confusions seem to abound around me..... I perceive a shield is built by the word against the power of deception, etc. I love God though not as perfectly as I would like.... but I also love to hear Him speak through His word.
    I almost wish that it were possible for others to 'make an idol of the Bible' if that meant that they would read and study and revere the word. God reveals himself and His power in it and through it and decisions are demanded by it. Our words and testimony may fail but His never does..... it demands decisions..... it will not return void and for those appointed to eternal life it is the road map which takes us to the cross, the empty tomb, and guides us in fellowship with Him to life eternal.

    Thanking each of you for your thoughtful answers. Especially the scripture confirmations.
     
  11. windcatcher

    windcatcher
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2007
    Messages:
    2,764
    Likes Received:
    0
    AMEN! Said better than I ever could!
     
  12. freeatlast

    freeatlast
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2004
    Messages:
    10,295
    Likes Received:
    0
    .I am not sure what he means that the bible could become an idol, but if he is not doing what David did in regards to the word of God then I would not seek him for any advice. Also to study it line upon line and precept upon precept
    Psalm 1:2
    63:6
    119:15
    119:48
     
  13. DaChaser1

    DaChaser1
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2011
    Messages:
    2,324
    Likes Received:
    0
    think that sometimes in our zeal to make sure the Bible is honored as the revelation of God to us in written form, lose sight that Jesus is THE WORD of God to us in human form, and the authority of the scriptures in a real sense is derived from jesus , the incarnate Word subscibing his authority to the written form of God!
     
  14. nodak

    nodak
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2008
    Messages:
    1,265
    Likes Received:
    15
    Why DaChaser 1, you old time Baptist, you!

    JESUS is God's final word to us, and the Scriptures bear witness TO HIM.

    Some folks, usually in the fundamentalist camp, seem to dispense with JESUS altogether in their pursuit of the study of the Word.

    Jesus told a group of folks just like that they were searching the Scriptures to find eternal life, and that it was found IN HIM.

    So I would say we need to take the Bible very very seriously as it reveals Jesus, but worship HIM, not the Bible.

    To do otherwise is idolatry.

    And no, that doesn't make me a flaming liberal. Anything we find in Jesus should square with the Bible.

    But again, if we worship the Bible we are idolaters.

    We are to worship God.
     
  15. DaChaser1

    DaChaser1
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2011
    Messages:
    2,324
    Likes Received:
    0

    believe that it was Dr daniel wallace that wrote that we in Evangelical circles tend to try to prove Bible in word of God first, than use it to prove divinity of jesus...

    We need to reverse and use jesus as primary source as proof of Bible being word of god, as he said it was!
     
  16. Rex77

    Rex77
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2006
    Messages:
    251
    Likes Received:
    2
    This is how God rates his Word.

    Ps 138:2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.
     
  17. tinytim

    tinytim
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/tim2.jpg>

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2003
    Messages:
    11,250
    Likes Received:
    0

    YOU can't be serious!!! do you realize you just sinned by making the Bible equal to God? You no longer hold to the trinity, but now you have God the father, son, holy ghost and word....

    The bible did not become flesh..
    JOHN 1:1 is not talking about the Bible...
    That is exactly what making the Bible an idol is all about.. and your view is heresy and I don't make that accusation lightly.. it is heresy because it destroys the teaching of the trinity.
     
  18. Oldtimer

    Oldtimer
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2011
    Messages:
    1,934
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gently, Brother, gently.

    Use kind words to teach, as another brother may not yet understand the difference between the word and the Word.

    Or, he may not have realized, at the time, his choice of verses contained one that wasn't appropropriate for the point he was trying to make. I know I've done that and later learned I was wrong. The way I was corrected either brought about appreciation or anger.
     
  19. saturneptune

    saturneptune
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    13,977
    Likes Received:
    0
    There was a man I worked with and we often talked about our churches and the Bible. One day the subject came up about making notes in the margin of Bible pages. My Bible is full of them, and frankly, wish I had started lots earlier. My coworker refused to write in his Bible, because he thought the pages themselves were sacred, and that writing on them was disrespectful. I tried to explain the difference between the Word inspired by the Lord, and paper it was printed on. I never did get my point across, but I continue to make notes. We just agreed to disagree and are still friends to this day.
     
  20. DaChaser1

    DaChaser1
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2011
    Messages:
    2,324
    Likes Received:
    0
    exactly!

    We worship the Living Godhead, father/Son/Spirit, who just so happened to give us by inspired revelation the wisdom and thoughts partially of Himself, the Bible!

    There will be jesus upon the Great White Throne, not the Bible!
     

Share This Page

Loading...