This is an issue I've debated so many times and I've grown so sarcastic about it because of the invaried responses... try to bear with me, and I'll try to do the same. Sigh... I didn't know when or how to ever appoarch this here. The so called "Sovereignty debate". In truth I haven't heard a more sorry excuse for retorhic in my entire life. No one on my side of this has EVER questioned God's Sovereignty, but only if He has limits far beyond our comprehension, but still there. That's still divine by any definition, but, I can just see what's gonna come next: __________________________ Arguements I've heard elsewhere: "Devil! If God's not divine then what, are you saying He's a man?" What in the world? Yea, I get this garbage all the time. GOD IS INDEED DIVINE, AND NNE SAID HE WASN'T! And I'm sick and tired of fighting ill thought out retorhic made with no consideration to the speaker. God is NOT a man and no one on my side ever alledges so either. Yet the other side constantly accusses us of saying such things. Course, most of the time we're discussed, we're not present except for straw-men. "Heritic! If God is not fully omnipotent, He's not God" Someone tell me how that passes for a thought out arguement! So let me get this straight, if God can't turn AM radios into pumpkins, He can't possibly be God? Are those who make this arguement that incapable of thinking it through? "Blasphemer! You are re-making God in your image!" Um, no, I'm not. In fact, by saying God cannot exist but by your definition, you are doing exactly what you accuse me of. In MY image? I'll check, but I'm pretty sure creating, or even fathoming this entire universe in six days, isn't within my power... nope, can't do it. "Idiot! The very definition of God is a being of infinite power and knowledge with no limits." No it's not. Sorry, but only ever have modern Christians thought that was the definition of God. "Simple minded man! If God has His limits, I can't trust Him." Who do you think you are? Six days people, SIX DAYS! Jupiter was like an after thought. How big do you think your problems are compared to that? "You're a heritic!" I might say the same of you, but it's not gonna go anywhere. "Heathen!" That's an arguement? ______________________________ So, since I'm pretty sure, it doesn't go anywhere, and as you can see I've done it before, can we skip the name calling and rehersed speeches, just this once?!! :BangHead::BangHead::BangHead: (Talks to self.) Breath Darren, now settle down. Stop pre-judging, maybe things will be different this time, maybe you'll actually get somewhere... who knows, maybe you'll be proved wrong, or maybe you'll get some people to think about their views at least. Maybe you'll see something besides the less savory side of modern Christians in debate when bringing this up. It's possible right? Unlikely, but possible. Aren't you sometimes even eager to be proven wrong? I hate painting myself as a victum, but guess what, this is the way things really are. Is it the way things are here? Okay, here goes. Why must God be fully, Omnipotent, Omniscient and Omnipresent? Also, yes I am prepared to show why I think the Bible says He is not, but lets start with you, where does it say He is?