The Book of Mormon

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Ars, Sep 5, 2001.

  1. Ars

    Ars
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2001
    Messages:
    369
    Likes Received:
    0
    * * * Disclaimer * * *
    I pose this question in this section because I'd like to have a discussion about this "Book" from the Baptist perspective. Although I could have placed this in the "Other Religions / Non-Baptist Doctrines" section, I wanted to focus on Baptist viewpoints rather than others. Perhaps after this is exhausted on this area, I'll repost in the "Other Religions / Non-Baptist Doctrines" area.

    So, based on your knowledge of this book:
    What are the major false doctrines it teaches?

    Does it teach any true doctrine?

    What statements in it make point to its truth or fiction?

    Cite any other information you feel is beneficial to Baptists (and other religions) in regards to the Book of Mormon and Mormonism itself.

    Please keep comments, questions etc. polite. I know that false religions can evoke a great deal of emotion. My main goal is to help equip others when confronted with this particular issue.

    Thanks,
    Dave
     
  2. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,402
    Likes Received:
    12
    We will leave this here in the THEOLOGY section, as that IS what we are discussing. Then move it when David requests.

    I live in Mormon country. I am constantly bombarded with the King James 1769 that they use. They say that it is easier to defend their beliefs from it than from the Modern Versions. I find that interesting.

    Will comment more as time allows, but want to hear of others experiences with the Book of Mormon - Another Testament of Jesus.
     
  3. Kathy

    Kathy
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2001
    Messages:
    1,541
    Likes Received:
    0
    The one teaching that really strikes me is the fact that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints teaches that the plan of salvation was presented to God by Jesus and His "brother" Lucifer. After they each presented a "plan", God chose Jesus' plan and thus the cross. Now, they say that this is why Lucifer became angry, because Jesus was the "favored" son.

    In light of this theory, they teach that there is a Heavenly Mother. They teach that God was a man at one point and became a god and that there are other superior godbeings on other planets.

    Basically, from what I have learned, they use the scripture that says that Jesus was the first born to imply that there were more sons of God.

    This is just all too bizarre for me to even remotely believe.

    Kathy
    <><

    P.S. They also tend to harp on the fact that you have to have a PERSONAL TESTIONY OF JESUS CHRIST, kind of like an epiphany (sp?)...
     
  4. MikeJ

    MikeJ
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2001
    Messages:
    95
    Likes Received:
    0
    The question at hand though refers specifically to doctrines outlined in the Book of Mormon. I used to have a copy, compliments of a LDS friend, but I don't have it any more. And I am not particularly interested in reading it anyway. I believe that the Book of Mormon itself is fairly silent with respect to aberrant doctrine.

    I once heard that as a piece of historical fantasy-fiction, the book of Mormon wasn't a particularlay bad book, especially when compared to the "Pearl of Great Price" and the "Book of Abraham".

    BTW the source texts for the one or the other, I believe the Book of Abraham actually exist. They appear to be the equivalent of Sumerian shopping or inventory lists. The LDS defence is something very similar to that which we occasionally hear from some of the KJVO folks, that the translation itself was inspired.

    Sorry to stir the pot.
     
  5. John Wells

    John Wells
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2001
    Messages:
    2,568
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have a copy of the Book of Mormon. I read about 1/3 of it several years ago, so it's not very fresh. It does not read like scripture. It sounded and felt (Holy Spirit I'm sure) worse than any of the Apo****hal books. I would subtitle it "The Adventures of Moroni" and file it under fiction, which I am not particularly interested in, thus the reason I abandoned the reading.
     
  6. Helen

    Helen
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/Helen2.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2001
    Messages:
    11,703
    Likes Received:
    1
    An excellent resource for learning about what the Book of Mormon teaches and its errors can be found at Jerald and Sandra Tanner's site: http://www.utlm.org/

    The Book of Mormon is self-contradictory, anti-biblical, and basically demonic. There is good evidence that it is basically a stolen science fiction manuscript of the type that was very popular the first half of the nineteenth century in the eastern United States.

    Some of the easy errors are:

    1. Jesus is the brother of Satan
    2. There are many gods
    3. The bad guys win
    4. Jesus comes to America after the Ascension (contrary to Paul's statement that He sits at the right hand of God until He comes again to judge the earth)
    5. Salvation by works
    6. An ancient American civilization (or several) of high technology and agriculture not known on this continent until the arrival of Europeans.

    There are other Mormon doctrines not found in the BoM which are also pretty nasty, and there is serious involvement with the occult taken straight from Masonic rituals. All of this has been documented fully a number of times in both videos and books and on the net. Start with the Tanner website and go from there for more than you ever wanted to know about them!

    I do have a question regarding something here, though -- why is the emphasis on what Baptists believe and not on what the Bible teaches and biblical Christians believe? It's not as though Baptists were not biblical Christians! Although I do not have membership in the Baptist church in our area I have attended and have interpreted for deaf friends there. It seems to me that Baptists are Christians rather than Christians being Baptists as a matter of definition! So I would much more be interested in, say, comparing the BoM with the Bible rather than with 'what Baptists believe' as though Baptists had different beliefs from God's Word!
     
  7. pawn raider

    pawn raider
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2001
    Messages:
    104
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have read the BoM and one of the interesting things I have noticed about the Book of Mormon is that it does not support the Mormon concept of God. It does, however, support the biblical view of God. The BoM teaches that God is a spirit. Mormon doctrine does not. And so on. It should be noted that words have been added to make the BoM conformable to Mormon doctrine. A comparison of the first edition with today’s edition of the BoM bears this out. Tomorrow, God willing, I shall try and give a partial list.

    Frank.
     
  8. Eladar

    Eladar
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2001
    Messages:
    3,012
    Likes Received:
    0
    Info about mormonism

    I found the information on the above page interesting. www.saintsalive has much more info on Mormonism.

    For one thing Joseph Smith didn't even use the gold tablets to write the book of Mormon, he used a seeing stone placed in a hat.

    Here are a couple of things I learned from this site:

    The god of Mormonism was born as a baby on another world. He grew up, got baptized by one holding the proper authority, got married in the temple for time and all eternity (probably to more than one wife), had many children, was obedient to all of the laws and ordinances of the gospel and eventually died. Because of his obedience and faithfulness and by the Law of Eternal Progression he was Exalted and became god. If you know anything about Mormon doctrine you know that this is the god of Mormonism. His name is Eloheim (or Ahman) and he lives on a planet (or star) nearest the planet Kolob. He is a glorified, resurrected, exalted man having a tangible body of flesh and bones.

    Most assuredly, the god of Mormonism is another god as spoken of in Deuteronomy 13:2. The god of Mormonism is not the God that Christ commanded us to worship. The creator of the universe is not a glorified, resurrected, exalted man having a tangible body of flesh and bones. He is not a created being. God is Spirit, not man (John 4:24). God is a Reasoning, Purposeful, Spirit-being; Who is Omnipresent, Omnipotent, Omniscient, Tri-Personal (yet Singular), Self-Existent, Immutable (Unchangeable), Eternal, Holy, Love, Just, and Merciful.


    THE FIVE QUESTIONS ROBERTS COULDN’T ANSWER

    1. Linguistics--Riter’s investigator asked why, if the American Indians were all descendants of Lehi, there was such a diversity in the languages of the American Indians and why was there no indication of Hebrew in any of the Indian languages?

    2. The Book of Mormon says that Lehi found horses when he arrived in America. The horse described in the Book of Mormon (as well as many other domestic animals.) did not exist here. It was imported with the Spaniards.

    3. Nephi is stated to have had a “bow of steel’. Jews did not know steel at time. (And there was no iron smelted on this continent until after the Spaniards arrived).

    4. The Book of Mormon frequently mentions “swords and cimeters”. Cimeters were unknown until the rise of the Moslem faith (after 500 A.D.-ed.).

    5. The Book of Mormon says the Nephites possessed silk. Silk did not exist in America in pre-Columbian times.


    Warnings from the Bible:

    Galatians 1: 8-9
    2 Corinthians 11:14 (Moroni is seen as an angel of light)
     
  9. pawn raider

    pawn raider
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2001
    Messages:
    104
    Likes Received:
    0
    The Mormons, or as they like to be called, “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints,” have the Book of Mormon which is subtitled: “Another Testament of Jesus Christ.” Is it really? Let’s see.
    In the introduction Joseph Smith is quoted as saying: “I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth…” However, in Mormon 8:12 it reads: “And whoso receiveth this record, and shall not condemn it because of the imperfections which are in it…” Is it the most correct book on earth or not?
    Immediately after the introduction is “The Testimony of Three Witnesses.” They write in the last line: “And the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God. Amen.” Mormon doctrine states that there are many Gods, not just one. Mormons don’t believe in monotheism or the trinity. Yet Mormon 7:7 affirms the trinity: “unto the Father, and unto the son and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God.” In the BoM Alma 11:27-31 states that there is only one God: “And Amulek said: Yea, there is a true and living God. Now Zeezrom said: Is there more than one God? And he answered, No. Now Zeezrom said unto him again: How knowest thou these things? And he said: An angel hath made them known unto me.”
    In the “Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith” on p. 299 Joseph Smith is quoted as saying: “There was no Greek of Latin upon the plates from which I, through the grace of God, translated the Book of Mormon.” Yet the words church and Christ, which are Greek, are found throughout the BoM as well as the Greek word Bible which is found in 2 Nephi 29:3.
    The Mormons believe that God, every god, was once human and was born just like you and I. But in Moses 1:3 it reads: “I am the Lord God Almighty, and Endless is my name; for I am without beginning of days or end of years…” If “god” was born just like you and I, how can he be without beginning of days?
    Mormon doctrine states that “God” is a man and lives on the planet Kolob. Alma 22:9, 10 reads: “Is God that Great Spirit that brought our fathers out of the and of Jerusalem? And Aaron said unto him: Yea, he is that Great Spirit…” Mormon scripture here is saying that God is a spirit.
    This should be a good start for those wanting to delve deeper into the errors of Mormonism.

    YBIC,
    Frank.

    [ September 07, 2001: Message edited by: pawn raider ]
     
  10. Gina B

    Gina B
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2000
    Messages:
    16,944
    Likes Received:
    1
    1. That the promised land is America. It is taught throughout.
    2. That the Bible is already fulfilled, outdated. Read I Nephi, you'll get it, especially chapters 12 & 13. This was also admitted to me by the elders.
    3. "Retain a remission of your sins through
    faithfullness"-opening of Mosiah chapter 4. The whole chapter deals with it. The last verse reads (Mosiah 4:30) "But this much I can tell you, that if ye do not (a)watch yourselves, and your (b)thoughts, and your (c)words, and your deeds, and observe the commandmentsof God, and(d)continue in the faith of what ye have heard concerning the coming of our Lord, even unto the end of your lives, ye must perish. And now, O man, remember, and perish not."
    That is just an extremely small sampling. Just by reading through a few of the more doctrinal chapters you can see how scattered the thoughts and strangely careful and cautious the wording was. Very odd for laying out truth.
    As far as any part of it being beneficial? They've dug up some cool artifacts trying to prove the plates that belong in the Smithsonian instead of in their paws.
    As far as the people themselves? We could learn from their faith and zeal. What if we all had as much faith in J-sus as they've got in Joseph?
    da Gina
     
  11. Jimmy

    Jimmy
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2000
    Messages:
    141
    Likes Received:
    0
    The web site bible-truth.org
    has some good artical concerning the book of mormon and other mormon doctrins. The webmaster is a Baptist pastor who has worked for many years in Utah and is very familar with the cult.
    bible-truth.org

    [ September 09, 2001: Message edited by: Jimmy ]
     
  12. Don

    Don
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2000
    Messages:
    10,550
    Likes Received:
    213
    Kathy, your response provoked what I'm about to say.

    I've been working on a theory for several years now, and will be working on it for several more. What you said about the Mormons believing in many gods sounded very similar to what I'm proposing.

    The way this is supposed to work is, we observe something; we formulate a theory; we test to prove or disprove the theory. I've observed something, I've formulated a theory, and I'm working to prove or disprove the theory. Anyone who has information to help prove or disprove can please contact me.

    Here's the observation: Multi-pantheism. In every culture. Stemming mainly around three figures: An "all-powerful father" god, little mention of the human wife he bears a son with, the half-human son.

    Three examples (of many):
    Zeus - Greek; throws lightning bolts
    Odin - Norse; the "all father"; throws lightning bolts
    Ra - Egyptian; the sun god; bolts of light

    (the human women with which they procreate are very rarely mentioned)

    The half-human sons:
    Hercules - Greek; uses a club
    Thor - Norse; uses a hammer
    Horace - Egyptian (actually the grandson of Ra); stated to be the avenger of all evils

    In each case, the "godly" half-brother is usually also the god of evil or death.

    From your post, it sounds as if Joseph Smith not only posited this theory first, but believed it to be true, but in the wrong direction. He apparently actually believed in the multi-pantheism.

    See, I believe there are too many similarities to be a coincidence. The theory I present is that the similarities can all be explained by the separation of the peoples at the tower of Babel. The split caused some people to distort the message of God and a coming savior, and to create new "gods" to worship rather than the one they were angry at.

    Ultimately, the reason for creating many gods instead of only one is to cultivate a belief that we, too, can become gods, if we only reach a state of "perfection"; i.e., work hard enough....

    [ September 09, 2001: Message edited by: Don ]
     
  13. Gina B

    Gina B
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2000
    Messages:
    16,944
    Likes Received:
    1
    Actually, I never got an explanation of where an all powerful being may have originated from.
    The belief is there is only one God - of THIS world! He used to be a man. He worked his way up to being God. He has (a) wife. We are all spirit children of God and his wife, as is every child born. We come to earth to have human bodies and be tested. We can work our way up to being gods of our own worlds.
    So God has a mom and dad too- his dad was once a man who worked HIS way up to being the god of the world HE was born on. And so on and so forth. Where does it end? Who knows?! It goes on and on and on.......eventually we will be gods and goddesses and have our own spirit children to populate our own worlds....us lucky women, if we're good,basically get to be eternally pregnant?. Yippee skippee! But this is for the best. You know, the cerrestrial, terrestrial, telestial thang.
    Gina
     

Share This Page

Loading...