The Book of Romans

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Claudia_T, May 24, 2006.

  1. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T
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    In my opinion, the Book of Romans can really help believers in Christ to understand the relation of Law and Grace.

    Paul said that "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

    How can we walk after the Spirit and not after the flesh?

    This tells us that our security in Jesus is CONDITIONAL! We are no longer under condemnation IF we stop walking in the flesh and begin walking in the Spirit!

    The Spirit is the HOLY Spirit! We cant walk in unholiness and expect not to be under the condemnation of God. There is no unconditional salvation there at all that I see.

    And so the question is, HOW do we walk in the Spirit and what does it mean to walk in the flesh?

    Next Paul says "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death."

    What is the Law of sin and death? That means if we sin, we will die. That is like the law of gravity. If you drop something, it will fall. If we sin, we are under condemnation of the law and we will die. That is the law of "sin and death".

    "...the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free" from this law of sin and death. Jesus died for us and He offers us His Spirit now to live in us... and His Spirit ENABLES US to live the life of Christ!

    This is what it means to become "PARTAKERS OF THE DIVINE NATURE"

    2Pt:1:4: Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

    THIS is what I think so many leave out of this entire thing. They say "Oh we cannot keep the law" but that is exactly why Jesus died for us, so that HE could keep the Law by living within us!

    His Spirit must be living in us. Col:1:27: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory
     
  2. thjplgvp

    thjplgvp
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    Me thinks that you you like the sound of your own key board.
     
  3. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T
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    well that wasnt very helpful to anybody

    so I am guessing that you believe we dont have to keep the Law of God?
     
  4. J. Jump

    J. Jump
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    No that's what you are trying to make the text say. This has absolutely nothing to do with our eternal salvation.

    Eternal salvation has nothing to do with walking in the Spirit. Eternal salvation has everything to do with believing on the substitutionary death and shed blood of Jesus Christ.

    Again if we would start off of step one on the right foot it would make things so much easier to understand.
     
  5. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T
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    JJ

    But it says we are UNDER NO CONDEMNATION if we walk in the Spirit!
     
  6. J. Jump

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    Absolutely...if we walk in the Spirit. Again that is a day-to-day choice a Christian has to make and really a moment-by-moment decision.

    If it is the practice of the Christian to die to self and allow the Spirit to control him/her then there will be no condemnation.

    However, the opposite of that statement is true. If a Christian allows the flesh to rule their life then there will be condemnation.

    But it doesn't have anything to do with eternity. How can we know that? Because Ephesians 2:8-9 and Acts 16:30-31 tell us that eternal salvation is a one-time event that once it is done it is done.

    Walking in the spirit is not a one-time event, but a lifetime choice that has to be made each and every day until we die. Therefore it can not be dealing with grace through faith. It's a different context.
     
  7. Claudia_T

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    So we were under the law of sin and death, the law condemned us... every one of us...

    God sends Jesus to live the perfect life for us... with no sin...thereby condemning sin in the flesh...He came just like us, "in the likeness of sinful flesh" with all the same temptations we have, yet never sinned and THAT is why it says He CONDEMNED sin in the flesh. There isnt any excuse to sin.

    "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh" verse 3


    ok and WHY did Jesus do that? so we could go out and break the law now? NO way! look at verse 4:

    "That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

    well WHAT LAW do you think its talking about here???

    THE 10 COMMANDMENT LAW of course!

    so these people who say those who advocate keeping the 10 commandments are "legalists" do NOT know what they are talking about!!
     
  8. Claudia_T

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    Yikes JJ I posted my post right when you did... I will go back and answer you in a little bit
     
  9. J. Jump

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    Claudia again you are totally missing what I'm saying. I'm not saying that people have the right to go out and sin (but I've said that over and over again as have other people). But just becuase we don't have the right to do something doesn't mean that some people (most Christians according to Scripture) aren't going to do exactly that.

    I will agree that when God says if we love Him we will keep His commandments to the extent of the Sabbath. I do not believe that was intended for the one new man in Christ.

    Why do I say that? Because it was given as a sign. And signs are only for the Jews.

    So all Christians are no longer bound by the Sabbath. Should we remember the concept and the reason for the Sabbath? Absolutely! Becuase the same reason it was given for a sign to the Jews is going to happen for the bride of Christ and that is a coming day of rest. The 1,000-year period of Christ's rule and reign over this earth. That is our awaited Sabbath rest as believers and it will also be the day of rest for Israel when that nation is healed and reigns from Jerusalem over all the Gentile nations.

    Again we are bought with the blood of Christ and are not our own anymore. But that doesn't mean that people don't take over the reigns of their life again. It happens every day. That is exactly what happens when you and I sin. We are not walking in the Spirit, but walking in the flesh.

    But hopefully the difference for you and I is that it was a slip up and not a lifestyle.
     
  10. J. Jump

    J. Jump
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    [​IMG] Hate it when that happens [​IMG] That will probably make my last post read a little weird, becuase I thought that was your response [​IMG]
     
  11. Claudia_T

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    Actually JJ I wasnt meaning you when I said something about not keeping the Law, more like other people Ive seen on the message board.

    Of course you know that I don believe the Sabbath was abolished, because I view it as the thing that keeps us in remembrance who our Creator is and thus makes us know WHY we should keep the conmmandments.

    I dont view the Sabbath at all as something "burdensome" in fact its my favorite day of the week. Who would ever have thought that people would balk at God commanding them NOT to work? [​IMG]

    JJ what do you think of how in Isaiah 66 it talks about that God's people in heaven will keep the Sabbath?..because that says "from one Sabbath to another" so it cant be a continual 1,000 yr Sabbath, right?

    22: For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
    23: And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
     
  12. J. Jump

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    Claudia I'm not sure exactly what that will mean as the context of the verse you are speaking of is after eternity has begun. I think God has purposely not revealed much about eternity to us, because that's not where our focus is to be.

    Eternity for us is secured at the moment we place our faith in the substitutionary death and shed blood of Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God.

    Therefore we can do nothing to get more saved, or do nothing to become less saved or anything to become unsaved. So there is no need to focus on eternity.

    However a lot hangs in the balance as to that 1,000-year period prior to eternity beginning.

    I do not doubt that God's people will honor Him and worship Him and praise Him in eternity. As to how it pertains to the sabbath I'm not sure as I don't think we are told. If we are I haven't found it yet.

    The reason it was given to Israel was that it was a reminder that God worked six days to restore a ruined creation and that He was at work again six days to restore another ruined creation in man and that He would rest at the end of the six days. It was a reminder to Israel of God's established plan/pattern. There is a lot we can take away from the sabbath I just don't think the Bible makes it a "law" for Christians to follow.
     
  13. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T
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    JJ

    What do you mean by a RUINED CREATION
     
  14. J. Jump

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    Most of Christendom considers the six days to be of actual creation, but it is six days of restoration, because earth was ruined (judgment fell on the earth and caused a ruined state) becuase of Satan's rebellion.

    He was the original ruler of the earth and still is. Man was created on the sixth day to take over the reigns from Satan, but man disqualified himself before he was able to take the scepter.

    God is again at work and will work six days to restore man to his original commission which was to rule the earth.

    All of human history has been and is pointing to that day when man returns to his original purpose and he will do that through Jesus.

    Israel will rule from the physical earth for 1,000 years because they will be healed and restored as a nation, becuase they will recognize their Messiah. And Christians (found worthy and who overcome) will rule with their Husband from the heavenly sphere where Satan and his crew currently rule from.

    That is just a very brief look at what I was talking about. If you would like a more indepth look just PM me.
     
  15. Briguy

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    Claudia, I just posted on the "justification" thread and aswer to this and i don't want to do a repeat. What I will say is that you and jjump are actually missing Pauls point. You automatically assume that "Walking" here means our actions. In this text it does not mean that. It is the condition of the heart of a person. The saved person walks in the Spirit, regardless of day to day actions. The unsvaed person walks in the flesh and is carnally minded, even if that person does good things. Think about it backwards instead of forwards and that may help. Can an unsaved person walk in the Spirit? (capital "S") even if they serve people and love people and do good to all? Now just reverse that and you will understand what Paul meant. Verse 9 of Chapt. 8 tells the story as Paul tells his readers they are not walking in the flesh. Think about that, he declared that without knowing what their day to day actions are.

    more later,

    In Christ,
    Brian
     
  16. J. Jump

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    Brian let me ask you a question. Since all saved folks are walking in the Spirit according to you, does that mean the entire church body will be the bride of Christ?
     
  17. Mary Diana Lynn Harper

    Mary Diana Lynn Harper
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    Unless one has heard of Christ and God, one is lost in this world. It does not matter how much good one does or how good one is unless Christ comes into one's heart, he is dead to this world. It is hard to live in this world without hearing about Christ and God, but there are some who have not heard the news. That is where we come in. It is our duty as stewards under Christ to spread the news as some put it, so these people who have done good all their life and are pure at heart can have that choice to be justified for the sake of the Word of God. I am not saying that children who are still born or die at an age before accountablility die in sin, for only God knows that. We should all walk in Faith of God and not by sight only. AMEN
     
  18. rooster25

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    I agree w/ bri guy....we are always in the Spirit positionally ROM 8:9......let us keep in step w/ the Spirit practical living.....plus most original manuscripts didnt include this phrase in v/1 it ended w/ Christ


    rusty
     
  19. Eric B

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    I agree with that too. It was fairly recently, that I have learned that "flesh" as Paul meant it, really was addressing the physical inheritance along with Lawkeeping the Jews were trusting in. This is basically what the entire book of Romans is about. We associate "the flesh" with "the sins of the flesh" (mostly sexual sins, and perhaps rage, gluttony, etc), and many think that focusing on the Law is the furthest from that, but in actuality, anyone trusting in the Law is rejecting grace, and thus still in the same spiritual state as the most profligate lawbreaker.
    We have to be careful with this "daily walk" we and our leading "Christian victory" teachers often speak of, because I have seen where it can easily revert back into works-salvation.
     
  20. wopik

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    i can see
     

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