The Council of Nicea. A pattern of the future Dan.9:27 Church/Israel compromise?

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Gavin, Jul 22, 2003.

  1. Gavin

    Gavin
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    Dear Friends,

    Compromise of the faith is an awful thing. The church began to do this when the invitations from Constantine arrived in 325 A.D.. They were asked to "come up" to sit at table with the Roman Caesar Constantine. What an honor! What an opportunity for power!! Did the elders go? Oh yes they did. Many of them at least. But not all.

    Here is the big question. Was this corporate church power brokering deal 1700 years ago a pattern of the future deal between the Judeo-Christian people and the future peacemaking Antichrist/false messiah?

    Here is a discussion on that subject. http://endtimepilgrim.org/nicea.htm

    Grace and peace to all.
    Gavin
    http://endtimepilgrim.org
     
  2. Ben W

    Ben W
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    It would be interesting to know exactly what went on at these councils. We know that they "Changed" the Sabbath and created doctrines about Sunday Worship and Purgatory. We really didnt get things back again until the English Reformation in the 1600's.
     
  3. Matt Black

    Matt Black
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    Before you malign the faith of the early church father's, perhaps you'd like to endure some fo the persecutions they went through. Remember that Constantine's Edict of Toleration was only issued a dozen years before Nicaea I; prior to that there was the Diocletian persecution - OK there were some power-hungry and Arian charlatans at the Council, but most of them had been prepared to pay with their lives for their faith. That doesn't sound like a bunch of compromisers to me. Even after Nicaea I, guys like Athanasius were prepared to endure persecution against the Empire's Arian policy. And don't forget, if it wasn't for these Councils, we wouldn't have the doctrine of the Trinity - or indeed our Bibles.

    Yours in Christ

    Matt
     
  4. Tim

    Tim
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    Matt,

    Good post. It's easy to look back with 20-20 hindsight. Just wait till some future generation looks back on our bad decisions!

    Gavin,

    Who are the Judeo-Christian people? All Jews? Believing Jews only? All Christians?

    In Christ,

    Tim
     
  5. Gavin

    Gavin
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    Dear Matt,

    I am aware that the Arian heresy was dealt a decicive blow with the Council of Nicea. It was not at all a bad show and I fully realise this. I'd like to hear more. Not all has been told about the Nicea deal. And I do not pretend for one minute that I have all the facts. Please speak on. I am interested and teachable. But we must keep our eyes wide open here. A great church-state compromise occurred 17 centuries ago at Nicea. A compromise between the cross and the sword. A compromise that is with us to this very day.

    I'm sure you understand.

    Your fellow servant in Christ,

    Gavin
    http://endtimepilgriim.org/nicea.htm
     
  6. Gavin

    Gavin
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    Hi Tim,

    Yes it is easy to look back with 20-20 hindsight.

    So lets do it!

    Wisdom, as a woman, is crying out in the streets and open squares. -Proverbs chapter one. But few are listening. They are watching football Hollywood melodrama on TV.

    The saints are asleep. Like Sleeping Beauty.

    Blessings,
    Gavin
    http://endtimepilgrim.org/nicea.htm
     
  7. KenH

    KenH
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    Say what? :confused:
     
  8. Ben W

    Ben W
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    Check out the Catholic Encyclopedia, the Sabbath was Changed from Saturday to Sunday.
     
  9. Matt Black

    Matt Black
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    Dear Gavin

    Yes, I agree that one of the tragedies of the 4th century was the accommodation between the nascent Catholic/Orthodox churches and the Roman state. But...although there was a degree of politicking at Nicaea I, there were also very faithful brothers there, and Nicaea was only a small step on that road of compromise. Nor is it fair to blame Constantine - he only became a Christian on his deathbed (if indeed he did at all)and he never really understood the intricacies of the faith; he was only really concerned with having a peaceful empire, hence his desire to settle the Christological controversy (which he didn't understand) that was tearing it apart by summoning the Council. again therefore, his toleration merely legalised Christianity, it didn't make it the state religion and it therefore isn't really the watershed that a lot of Protestants think it is.

    The real turning point for me comes at the end of the 4th century, with Theodosius making Christianity the state religion and banning everything else. Two things happen - one is the indentification of church and state and some bishops consequently thinking rather more highly of themselves than they should (with some notable exceptions like Ambrose of Milan). secondly, with paganism being officially done away with, Christians have no non-Christian yardstck against which to measure their behaviour. So, everything becomes Christian and therefore permissible, in the popular consciousness at grass roots level. For example, prior to the Theodosian Establishment, it was clearly pagan to worship the dead - that was what the pagans did, and the Christians didn't. After Theodosius, adoration of relics of the saints is OK, because that can't possibly be pagan (as paganism doesn't exist anymore) but must be Christian.

    The upper echelons of the church managed to stagger on, on a conciliar basis at least, for a couple of generations more, coming up with important Christological definitions at Ephesus (431) and Chalcedon (451) and also putting the finishing touches to the Bible at Carthage (397), but with the end of the Western Roman Empire in 476 and the Bishop of Rome's subsequent arrogation to himself of its power, the subordination of the Patriarch of Constantinople to the Eastern Roman Emperor, and the heresy and Muslim domination of the remaining patriarchates in the 7th century, all semblance of church unity and their ability to formulate sound decisions was destroyed.

    In some respects, from a human POV, one can understand the corruption that did occur in the 4th century- suddenly you go from being persecuted to privileged, and it definitely went to the heads of quite a few.

    Yours in Christ

    Matt
     

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