The Damnable Doctrine of backsliding

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by gerald285, Feb 17, 2007.

  1. gerald285

    gerald285
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    I believe that we are now nearly full blown in what one could call the Laodicean age. Sadly the church today no longer understands what repentance is from a biblical standpoint. We have come up with man made doctrines that negates the word of God.

    One that comes to mind is the doctrine of backsliding. It sounds so good and so many have adopted it but it is so deadly and deceitful. In the New testament no one is ever called a backslider. That term was used exclusively for Israel as a nation and every time it is used in the Old Testament it is being directed at the nation, and saying that they are lost. It never means that they are saved and not living the life, but only that they are a people (nation) who has turned from how past generations have followed the Lord and now they do not follow, thus they are backslidden and lost. The church today is like this! Yes many claim to know Him but their hearts are far from Him.
    Luk 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
    Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
    Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity

    In 1 John we are told the following;
    1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

    The Greek here in this passage is saying that once a person is saved they never again return to the practice of sin. The daily life of the true Christian is one of obedience and surrender towards their Lord. Yes we might sin in any given moment during any day, but it will not be the practice of a true believer to sin.

    The scripture goes on and says;
    1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

    Notice that it is impossible for a true believer to return to sin, (backslide as many call it). The seed of God remains and keeps us from returning to sin as a lifestyle. One good way to judge if we are a true Christian is to heed the words of the Master.

    Jhn 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

    Jhn 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

    Jhn 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

    The truth is that if we are not of those who are commandment keepers we do not love the Lord and we are not saved. This is not about sinless perfection, but about a heart that is surrendered to the Lord in such a way that we want and seek every aspect of His will on a moment by moment bases. We are saved by grace through faith, but we are changed unto good works.

    Let us be warned and not deceived;
    1Cr 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

    1Cr 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

    Often times in speaking to someone about this I tell them that a true believer will shock those around them if the believer sins because it is out of character for a Christian to sin. More then this, for a true believer to sin it will shock even themselves. Our sin will bring not only conviction, but a mindset of "how could I say that or how could do that. We will be shocked by our own sin regardless of the severity, IF we are saved, and be led to swiftly confess it and forsake it.

    Repentance is just about a lost doctrine today in our churches, and sadly if it is mentioned it is not explained clearly. True biblical repentance is the spirit of total surrender to God in Christ. In other words we turn to God with all our hearts. Scripture says this;
    Jer 29:13 And ye shall seek me, and find [me], when ye shall search for me with all your heart.

    Repentance is not 50% or 75% or 99%. It is not true biblical repentance until we surrender all. We even sing a song about this, "I surrender all". At the point of true repentance we then take that heart, that spirit, and place it on the Son, Jesus Christ, and faith is born, and we are saved. From that point on we are kept in that state and never turn from it as scripture says, for if we turn we were never saved.

    1Jo 2:18 ¶ Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

    1Jo 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would [no doubt] have continued with us: but [they went out], that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

    We become new Creatures and old things pass away and all things become new.
    2Cr 5:17 Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

    Those who come into our mist and seem to walk with us for a time and then turn back into sin are not backsliders. They are those who were never converted and now are exposed for all to see. Yes they may have prayed a so called sinners prayer, and they may claim to know Jesus, but their deeds prove them to be liars. They may come back for rededication with tears and leave again several times before real salvation takes place, but unless they remain in the lifestyle of faith they are lost according to scripture. We can thank God that they can still come at a later date to really be saved, and some do. However let us be warned that if we develop doctrines of convenience that contradict the word of God we may be guilty of locking multitudes in a false sense of security that costs them their souls in eternal torment.

    True biblical repentance is a state in which the believer lives day by day, moment by moment and is fueled by faith that is spawned by the Spirit who keeps us saved. John1 would say;

    1Jo 2:1 ¶ My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

    All sin is a choice and no Christian has to sin;

    1Cr 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God [is] faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear [it].

    No one has ever sinned a sin in which they did not willfully choose to sin. We choose sin because of sinful hearts, but if we are of those who has been given a new heart and love the Lord we should seek righteousness due to faith as a daily practice, and even those times that we do sin they should be becoming less and less as we walk with the Master and learn how to control the flesh with its desires and passions.

    Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

    May a cry go out to the church first and then the world that salvation is by grace through faith and is brought on by repentance towards God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

    Mat 7:13 ¶ Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
    Mat 7:14 Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

    Let us take heed and not be woo asleep by the world and the many Laodicean church's of today. May we come to true biblical repentance and faith. Let us pray that the Lord will open the eyes of those who have been led astray and raise up men who will speak the truth in love.

    Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

    Rev 22:14 Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

    Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
    God Bless
     
  2. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob
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    This is a good post but I have one exception with it and wonder where do you get this?

    I don't understand you saying someone could committ such an act but they just couldn't practice it. Maybe you could help me understand that?

    If God can chastise us and make us stop such a sin, don't you think His Grace is strong enough to keep us from raping a 5 year old little girl?

    Sorry to put this so bold, but that is the only way you can get a point across on here.
     
    #2 Brother Bob, Feb 17, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 17, 2007
  3. El_Guero

    El_Guero
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    Tex

    Revival is always in vogue for those that worship God . . .

    :godisgood:
     
  4. Amy.G

    Amy.G
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    I noticed that part too and I started thinking that in order to commit a sin like raping a child, wouldn't one have to be practicing sin? In other words, he didn't just say "oops I raped a child". It is something that he thought out and would have rejected the conviction of the Holy Spirit many times to get to the point of actually carrying out the sin. Could this be considered practicing sin, rejecting the prompting of the Holy Spirit repeatedly?
    On the other hand, it could be said he never had the Holy Spirit.
     
  5. gerald285

    gerald285
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    Hello Bob,
    good question. I wish that God did stop us from sin. All sin! However He does not. We are yet in the flesh and temptation still comes. Praise God for the new bodies one day! :godisgood:
    As for the raping of anyone at any age why is that sin any more or less then another? Why are we not perfect in this age? As I mentioned it is because we are still in these fallen bodies. The scripture is clear however that we are protected from returning to a lifestyle of sin. Thank God for that! So we are left with the battle to live without any sin and that is in itself a real battle!

     
  6. gerald285

    gerald285
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    Hello Amy,
    I think that here in lies the problem. We call some sin slips, but in all reallity they are alll willful. No sin is a slip for the child of God. I challenge anyone to give just one sin that they have done as a Christian that they could not have stopped. Just one.
    Once we become a Christian we not only are convicted if we sin, but we are actually dealt with (Convicted) before the sin takes place. He warns us to turn or be still or leave or what ever, but we are dealt with. We then choose and sadly many times we choose sin.
     
  7. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob
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    Because even Jesus said there is a difference in sin.

    If His Grace is strong enough to wipe away all our past sins, don't you think its strong enough to keep us, for we are kept by the power of God.

    Do you honestly believe that a saved person with the "mind of Christ" and the "indwelling of the Holy Ghost" when the inward man is stronger than the outward man would allow one of His "saved" to rape a 5 year and I use that as an example.
    I do not believe raping a 5 year old and not visiting the sick is the same when it come to sin. Maybe you do Sir but I do not.

    Mat 12:31 ¶ Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy [against] the [Holy] Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

    1st John 5:
    : If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
    17: All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.


    I do not believe that God allows us a "freebie" on all sins that are unto death.
    The next thing will be "where is the list"?

    God gave you a heart of flesh and removed your heart of stone and I do not believe he gave you a bad heart of flesh but a good one. Good enough for His Spirit to dwell in and the Mind of Christ to be there also.
    The list? Its inside of that heart of flesh. All children of God has something teaching them right from wrong, good from evil. I would doubt someone's salvation if they said they didn't know what would send them to hell.
     
    #7 Brother Bob, Feb 17, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 17, 2007
  8. Amy.G

    Amy.G
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    Gerald, surely you don't equate the raping of a child with a "slip" as you call it. Someone said today on another thread that as we grow as Christians we will sin less and less. I believe that. If nothing else from my own experience as a Christian. So doesn't it make sense that if I sin less and less as I grow, that when I first became a Christian that certain sins ceased? Think of someone who's in prison for murders that he committed as a non believer. He accepts Christ and his sins are forgiven, but he will not go back to being a murderer if indeed he truly submitted to Christ. If the presence of the Holy Spirit in me cannot keep me from committing such horrors as murder, then why did Jesus even send Him to me?
     
  9. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob
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    gerald;
    Please go back and read your own post without any comments in it and its a great post. I even copied it to save.
     
    #9 Brother Bob, Feb 18, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 18, 2007
  10. gerald285

    gerald285
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    Amy,
    like I said there are no slips for the Christian. That is simply an excuse to justify sin or at least make it seem less then it is. All sin is a choice. You offered an acount of someone in prison. However why do yoou pick out murder. If the Spirit can keep someone from murder can he not keep someone from gossip or coveting? I would remind you it is not about the type of sin. Again Peter denied the Lord and from my view that is far more seriious then any other sin. However the only thiug that we are promised is that we will not retuen to the practice of sin which is whhat the article is about. It was intended to deal with the false teaching that most baptists hold. That being that soeone can become a Christians and then retuen to sin as a llifestyle and be saved. While eternal security is true the idea that someoone gets saved and turnes back is not.
     
  11. gerald285

    gerald285
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    Thank you Bob for the compliment. My reply to your comment was simply that. A comment.
     
  12. Amy.G

    Amy.G
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    Gerald, I agree that your post was wonderful and very true. I did not mean to be critical. :)
     
  13. gerald285

    gerald285
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    Thank you. I did not take it that way Sometimes In answering I find it hard to express myself in a manner that comes across softly. I hope I have not answered harshly. God bless.
     
  14. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob
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    Peter did not have the indwelling Holy Spirit at that time.
    There is a sin and a sin unto death and God will not let us go so far as we sin unto death. We still have a thorn in the flesh which Paul desired to have it removed but God said "My Grace is sufficient to keep thee". The outward man is still waiting on its change is why we commit sins that are not unto death but God don't let us go back to the "death" sins. There are different lists in the Bible about what sins a person can commit and not go to Heaven. I don't find in them these sins of failing to visit the sick for example. I do find in them, liar, adulterer, murderer etc. There is a list in your heart I know that teaches you if you do this or that you will go to Hell.

    BTW, people don't take me as being gentle, but I can't help it. :) I am just plain as an old shoe.
     
  15. Martin

    Martin
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    Well Gerald I am glad to see someone here post that kind of message. There are several of us here who believe that, and I have posted simular things, however there are many here (and in the church) who are going to strongly disagree with your position. In fact I am amazed that your post has not set this board into a firey debate.

    The doctrine of the "carnal Christian", what you are calling "backsliding", has done vast damage to the church. The Bible speaks of believers acting carnally "at times" but it never teaches that a believer can be carnal as a way of life!


    ==That is exactly right! The modern church has so watered down Christianity that it is nothing more than a country club or a political position. The Bible is clear that those who turn away were never saved (1Jn 2:19, Heb 10:26-31). If they had been truly born of God they would not have turned away to sin or to unbelief (1Jn 3:9-10, 1Jn 2:19, Jn 8:31, Col 1:21-23, etc). We are too quick to proclaim someone "saved". There must be fruit which is evidence of the Holy Spirit's presence in their life. A person who is "saved" and who lives like they did before they were saved is in reality lost.


    ==Amen to that. However I would state that there may come a time when a person who has turned away cannot come back to the "door of salvation" (if I can word it that way). I think of passages like Hebrews 6:4-6 and 10:26-31. Coming to the knowledge of the truth and then willfully turning away is very dangerous. There is, as Adrian Rodgers put it, a deadline out there. If a person crosses that line there is no turning back. Some call this the unpardonable sin (ie..Matt 12:31). However I believe Charles Stanley's terminology is better. He calls it an "unpardonable state". Sadly some of Stanley's early sermons, and his book on eternal security, promote a easy believism. I say sadly because most of his teachings are solid as a rock he just, for some reason, goes easy on the Lordship issue. It maybe a response to the legalism and abuse he was a victim of as a child. I can understand that but he needs to get it right. One person I heard once said, and I agree, Charles Stanley knows better than that (ie...that a person could walk away and still be saved).

    ==Amen. Anytime a believer sins we, and I must include myself in this, walk eyes wide open into it. If we are a true believer we will repent and move forward. Apostates continue in their sin until they finally fall away. They were never saved.

    ==I can't add, or take away, from that in the least. Amen!

    Btw, what do you think about John MacArthur's view of backsliding? Of course he agrees with your position but he does allow the term to be used. Here I am refering to his Q&A section at the back of the second edition of "The Gospel According To Jesus". If you don't have access to that I can copy the section and send it to you via pm, just let me know.

    May the Lord bless you and the message He has laid on your heart! :praying:
     
    #15 Martin, Feb 19, 2007
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