The difference between True Arminian/ Non Cal's and False converts

Discussion in 'Calvinism/Arminianism Debate' started by evangelist6589, Aug 6, 2014.

  1. evangelist6589

    evangelist6589
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    Some have been lying and saying that I am calling everyone but Calvinists False converts, or that I have been labeling people false converts. This is completely false as only God knows whom is true and who is false! Some vocal Arminian protagonists on this board I believe to be believers, but we disagree in some areas of theology. I will state there is a HUGE difference between reading the book of a True Arminian or non Cal and that of someone I believe personally to be a false disciple. Let me demonstrate.

    Recently I was digging and tossing some books in my library and I discovered books I have had that are by some that profess Christ, yet their books are filled with psycho babble, and secular wisdom. I can't say of the salvation of the author, but it may be possible the person is not a true convert, but I do not know. Let me give you examples.

    Books by those professing Christ, yet the Bible is not their authority.

    Quitter: Closing the Gap Between Your Day Job & Your Dream Job
    Have you ever felt caught between the tension of a day job and a dream job? That gap between what you have to do and what you'd love to do? All too often, we hear that dreaming big means you quit your day job, sell everything you own, and move to Guam. But what if there were a different way? What if you could blow up your dream without blowing up your life? What if you could go for broke without going broke? What if you could start today? What if you already have everything you need to begin? From figuring out what your dream is to quitting in a way that exponentially increases your chance of success, Quitter is full of inspiring stories and actionable advice. This book is based on 12 years of cubicle living and my true story of cultivating a dream job that changed my life and the world in the process. It's time to close the gap between your day job and your dream job. It's time to be a Quitter.

    This author claims Christ, yet his book does not demonstrate the Bible being his authority, which makes me question this character.

    Thou Shall Prosper: Ten Commandments for Making Money

    Another author that claims Christ, yet no Bible verses, nor is the Bible his authority.

    How to Win Friends & Influence People
    For more than sixty years the rock-solid, time-tested advice in this book has carried thousands of now famous people up the ladder of success in their business and personal lives.
    Now this previously revised and updated bestseller is available in trade paperback for the first time to help you achieve your maximum potential throughout the next century! Learn:

    * Three fundamental techniques in handling people

    * The six ways to make people like you

    * The twelve ways to win people to you way of thinking

    * The nine ways to change people without arousing resentment

    Another book that I used to own but it got tossed as I do not believe this author to be a true follower of the Lord. It may be possible that he is, but I don't trust his secular wisdom.

    The Road Less Traveled, Timeless Edition: A New Psychology of Love, Traditional Values and Spiritual Growth
    The Road Less Traveled continues to help us explore the very nature of loving relationships and leads us toward a new serenity and fullness of life. It helps us learn how to distinguish dependency from love; how to become a more sensitive parent; and ultimately how to become one’s own true self. Recognizing that, as in the famous opening line of his book, “Life is difficult” and that the journey to spiritual growth is a long one, Dr. Peck never bullies his readers, but rather guides them gently through the hard and often painful process of change toward a higher level of self-understanding.

    This author gets some of his wisdom from Buddhism and other non Christian sources and believe it or not he may claim to be a Christian, and I was given this garbage book by someone claiming to be a Christian.

    Read more about the author.

    http://www.equip.org/articles/m-scott-peck-traveling-down-the-wrong-road/#christian-books-1

    Friends true Arminians and Non Cal's love the scripture and it is their authority. I have plenty of non Cal books in my library by authors like Charles Stanley, David Jeremiah, John Walvoord, Ron Rhodes and such. These men love the word. So as you see there is a WORLD OF DIFFERENCE between a false convert and a true Arminian or Non Cal.
     
    #1 evangelist6589, Aug 6, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 6, 2014
  2. padredurand

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    You've recognized these books for what they are. My question for you is what in the name of Sam Hill do any of these titles have to do with Calvinism, Arminianism or false conversions?

    If they are junk just throw them out and move on.
     
  3. evangelist6589

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    My POINT is that many claiming to be Arminian may indeed not be born again, do not write with the Bible being their authority. They get wisdom from Buddha, and other world religions and integrate it into their writings and life teachings. A true Arminian recognizes Jesus as being the only Way (Jn 14:6) and the word of God as being the authority in all matters.
     
  4. Don

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    Evangelist - if that's the definition of an arminian, then the others you've described are not arminians...so calling them arminians is a misnomer.

    Why do you feel the need to classify the brethren?
     
  5. InTheLight

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    You have questioned the salvation of many, many people with phrases like, "they are probably false converts", "they are into easy believeism and are likely false converts", "they get a lot of people to profess faith but since they don't peach sin and repentance they are false converts", "they repeat a prayer and think they are saved but they are false converts".

    So far as I know you have NEVER called a Calvinist a false convert.

    ANYBODY can find this in less than 10 seconds using the advanced search function on this board.

    So yes, you in fact, do this.
     
    #5 InTheLight, Aug 6, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 6, 2014
  6. Don

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    Evangelist - I would appreciate an answer: why do you feel the necessity to classify the brethren?
     
  7. padredurand

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    Dale Carnegie, to the best of my knowledge, made no claim to be a preacher, teacher or proponent of the Christian faith yet you use his book as an example. He doesn't write with the Bible as his authority because it isn't. Carnegie was a salesman. His best known product was his book How to Win Friends and Influence People. It is not a theological text by any definition.

    To use these psychobabble self-help books as examples of Arminians, Calvinist and false converts is akin to examining vegetables at a fruit stand and concluding that wool can be itchy.
     
  8. Revmitchell

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    I don't see any scripture in the op. Hmmm....I wonder what that means.
     
  9. Yeshua1

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    Those persons that you cited were all probably not even saved though, correct?

    Perhaps you meant to say that arminian/non cal theology tends to produce a salvation that you would deem insufficient, as they would not go into the lordship of Christ teaching probably?
     
  10. JonC

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    Many claiming to be Christians are not Christians. It does not matter if they claim to be a Calvinist or an Arminianian. It is assumed that both Calvinist and Arminian are Christians as such a belief in Christ is a prerequisite for both.
     
  11. evangelist6589

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    That's not what I said. I meant that some may profess faith but by their actions I am confused but only God knows...
     
  12. evangelist6589

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    Very well said very well said.
     
  13. Don

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    One more time, just to verify that my question is being willfully ignored:

    Evangelist: Why do you feel the necessity to classify the brethren?
     
  14. convicted1

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    Non-Cals...

    -- atheists
    -- buddhists
    -- muslims
    -- hindus
    -- JW's
    -- gnostics
    -- Mormons
    -- scientologists

    :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbs:
     
  15. evangelist6589

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    Heretics!!!
     
  16. evangelist6589

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    Do you think attending church at a Pentecostal Holiness church and hearing them preach is the same as hearing a good Calvinist pastor preach?

    I went to such a church once and never again. Those guys just do not know a thing about exegesis, and air their opinion as if its the word of God. They call it the Word of knowledge and the pastor prays for a sermon, yet refuses to open his bible, but just slams the pulpit and airs his opinion and says the same thing about 20 times in a sermon.
     
  17. Don

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    Who said anything about pentecostals? My question was in reference to your post on page 1 about "true arminians"; my question was about your apparent need to classify fellow believers.

    By focusing on the labels, all you do is sow discord among the brethren. Why do you feel such a need to determine if someone is reformed, calvinist, arminian, pelagian, lordship, etc., etc.?
     
  18. preacher4truth

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    Lend the brother some credit by allowing him to bring in other denoms. He is showing by doing so a 'class' or 'classes' of 'believers'.

    IMO opinion he is not sowing discord among the brethren no matter how badly you want it to be that way Don, but frankly I believe you dog his steps thread after thread harassing him.

    There are many sects of Christianity; Catholics, Pentecostals, The Emergent, Amish, Mennonite, CoC, 'Christian' Science and many more, also including the ones you've mentioned as well in your 'classification'.

    Determining ones theological position and belief system is not sowing discord, it is actually being discerning, making attempt to understand what said believe, defending the Gospel, examining said beliefs in light of Scripture, defending THE faith, Jude 3, and, by this, that is by determining what a professing believer believes by necessity categorizes them into certain groups. It is also something that takes place on any given Sunday in churches that examine beliefs, self, &c which should take place.

    Consider the Nicolaitanes, the Judaizers, the Gnostics, those who are Antinomian, Pelagians, those who are Mormon who call themselves 'Christians', the Watchtower Organization, Heavens Gate...and the list could go on.

    Those who may fit under 'orthodoxy' (Arminians, Reformed &c) can fall under the same scrutiny, and should. A faith that refuses to be examined, (and by said examination and confession causes such to fall under a category), is a weak faith to say the least.

    All of us need to examine what we believe, and accept whatever category into which we fall, whether of the faith, or contrary to the faith once delivered.
     
  19. Rippon

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    Good stuff above! I like clear distinctions;not the murky world of gray.
     
  20. Don

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    Your last paragraph is excellent.

    The problem is when those differences are used in such a way as to indicate that one group of believers is somehow of a "higher grade" than others, or somehow better than others because they believe differently; e.g., Evangelist's use of "arminian" for anyone who believes differently than he does.

    If you don't believe this causes discord among the brethren, then you're not paying attention to what happens on this message board.
     

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