The Difference?

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by wtrsju, Mar 1, 2005.

  1. wtrsju

    wtrsju
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2005
    Messages:
    99
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am new to Christian theology and was thinking manybe I could get some insights as to the basic difference between calvinism and arminianism. This is not so much for debate, but just so I understand the basic differences and beliefs.
     
  2. ILUVLIGHT

    ILUVLIGHT
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    Hi wtrsju;
    The best way to find out is to read the post on the board there is also archives you can check out.
    Another way is to type the name of the doctrine in your browser address bar and hit go. then check out the references.
    May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
    Mike [​IMG]
     
  3. johnp.

    johnp.
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2004
    Messages:
    3,231
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hello wtrsju nice to meet you.

    I think the easiest way to start is to let you know that as far as Calvinism is concerned it is concerned with the Sovereignty of God. This is the backbone of Calvinism, it's strength and it's glory.

    As far as I know Calvinism is the only religion in the world that says that it is God that saves men and God alone. Nothing the man does or thinks will help him to put his faith in Jesus unless Jesus gives him the faith he needs. It is God's choice who He loves.
    The reason man is in this condition is because of original sin and this is known as Total Depravity (also known as Total Inability).
    God determined that there was to be no condition needed for salvation except His choice. He chooses the saved (elect) according to His will and this is not based on anything in man. This is called Unconditional Election.
    That fact that God chooses some and does not choose others means that the atonement, the sacrifice Jesus suffered on the cross, was made for a limited number of people. This is called Limited Atonement.
    Irresistable grace is so called because those God has chosen are called effectually. That is, those that were chosen are saved regardless of anything else even themselves.
    Perseverance of the Saints means that those chosen are saved forever regardless of anything else. There can be no loss of salvation.
    Those points are known as TULIP. There is a lot more about Calvinism but these five points are the best known.

    Just reverse these five points to see the Arminians beliefs. I doubt whether any will claim to be Arminians because Arminians use the name Calvinism as a slight against us, followers of men we are called. Followers of scripture we are.

    You have an unusual name, you Polish? :cool:

    It's a bit rough and ready but the details can come if you want.

    johnp.
     
  4. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2004
    Messages:
    3,400
    Likes Received:
    0
    wtrsju,
    Just so you'll know, Johnp's post is his opinion only! There is little truth exposed by it!
     
  5. johnp.

    johnp.
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2004
    Messages:
    3,231
    Likes Received:
    0
    Welcome to the Arminian Calvinist debate wtrsju. :cool:

    Make sure of all things I think Wes is saying.

    johnp.
     
  6. Kiffen

    Kiffen
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2004
    Messages:
    641
    Likes Received:
    0
  7. wtrsju

    wtrsju
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2005
    Messages:
    99
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks for the articles and insights. It seems like a topic that can draw some emotion from both sides.
     
  8. wtrsju

    wtrsju
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2005
    Messages:
    99
    Likes Received:
    0
    What is the root of Arminianism? where did it form and from who?
     
  9. johnp.

    johnp.
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2004
    Messages:
    3,231
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hello wtrsju.

    Did you find the answers to your questions? What conclusions if any have you come to?

    johnp.
     
  10. billwald

    billwald
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2000
    Messages:
    11,414
    Likes Received:
    0
    The term came from Jacobus Arminius (sp?)who propose 5 anti-Calvinistic principles shortly after Calvin Died.
     
  11. wtrsju

    wtrsju
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2005
    Messages:
    99
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes the answers and insights do help. It's interesting to analyze both concepts, but I would say for the most part I would error on the calvinistic side. This is not to say that I would consider myself a 5 point Calvinist, as I have not come to peace in my own views when it comes to the idea of predestination. Again, I am new in my theological insights and truthfully have a great deal of study ahead of me to determine my true feelings. I do know a few things though. I am saved, have been since the age of 16. Jesus died for my sins and I plan on spending my life futhering the cause of my religion. Thanks for the help and I the concern on both sides.
     
  12. wtrsju

    wtrsju
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2005
    Messages:
    99
    Likes Received:
    0
    sorry meant to be the concerns.. really should proofread my statements. : )
     
  13. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2004
    Messages:
    3,400
    Likes Received:
    0
    Just curious as to why you would call the counterpoints to Calvins 5 points "Anti Calvinist"?
     
  14. whatever

    whatever
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Messages:
    2,088
    Likes Received:
    0
    Just curious as to why you would call the counterpoints to Calvins 5 points "Anti Calvinist"? </font>[/QUOTE]The Arminians did not propose counterpoints to Calvin's 5 points. Calvin didn't have 5 points. Arminius' followers proposed 5 points of theological (mis)understanding, each of which differed from the majority view of the church at the time. The 5 points presented by the Arminians were soundly rejected, and the representatives instead formulated what have become known as the 5 points of "Calvinism" in response. And, all of this occurred long after Calvin's death.
     
  15. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2004
    Messages:
    3,400
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks for the info Whatever, but that doesn't answer the question I ask of billwald.
     
  16. Bro. James Reed

    Bro. James Reed
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2002
    Messages:
    2,992
    Likes Received:
    0
    For the same reason many folks have, over the years, referred to us as anti-Missions Baptists. It's not necessarily "what we are all about", but for those who are familiar with Missionary Baptists, the term will give them the idea that we are counter to their beliefs.

    It could just as easily be said that Calvinists have the 5-points of anti-Arminianism.

    I don't think you should read much more into it than that.

    There is no doubt that the so-called 5-points of Calvinism are about as anti-Arminian as you can get.

    Of course, the question was not asked of me, so I can't be fore sure of the motive behind writing the phrase in such a way, but it seems that I may be correct in my assumption.

    I am also not a big fan of Calvanism, although many times we are labeled hyper-calvinist, but I am much closer to that theology than that of the Arminians.

    It seems to me that many people who proclaim to be Calvinists also believe in some form of works doctrine, so their claim in a belief of solely grace is moot.

    As for the op ed, the basic difference, and I mean BASIC in the extreme, can be summed up as such; Calvinsists believe that an elect people were chosen to be in heaven before the world began, and that number can not be altered one way or the other, while Arminians believe that the whole Adamic world is saved, but that each individual makes a choice of whether they get to go to heaven or not.

    That is the difference in the simplest form, and I am really generalizing here. There are mixtures of the 2 with many people, with very few actually holding to all of the "points" of either theology.

    Hope this helps. [​IMG]
     
  17. johnp.

    johnp.
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2004
    Messages:
    3,231
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hello Bro. James Reed.
    That's the good fight. We are forever falling into that which is our natural nature. It takes much effort to keep remembering that it is by grace that we are saved.

    johnp.
     
  18. ILUVLIGHT

    ILUVLIGHT
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    JohnP
    It takes much effort to keep remembering that it is by grace that we are saved through faith.
    Mike :D
     
  19. johnp.

    johnp.
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2004
    Messages:
    3,231
    Likes Received:
    0
    ILUVLIGHT
    It takes much effort to keep remembering that it is by grace that we are saved.

    johnp. :cool:
     
  20. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2004
    Messages:
    3,400
    Likes Received:
    0
    For while God is abiding in His grace toward mankind, we are save through faith, and not of ourselves it, salvation, is a gift of God. Not of works lest any man should boast.

    God's behavior toward mankind, Grace, is a gift, but it is not "given" to man as in a transfer of ownership the way that most "gifts" are given.

    Salvation however, is a gift of transferrence in that man is the beneficiary of eternal life, which is salvation. Therefore the Gift of God to man is man's salvation while God abides in his grace toward man.

    Man's only requirement is FAITH in God! and FAITH is not a work, else Paul would not have said, "NOT OF WORKS, lest anyman should boast".

    Grace is not what saves us, it is the one who possesses divine Grace, God, that does the saving!
     

Share This Page

Loading...