The Effects of Calvinism

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Salamander, Jun 19, 2006.

  1. Salamander

    Salamander
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    How does your belief in the ideal of Calvinism effect your witness to others?

    If you've witnessed at all, and the one you've witnessed to several times, has responded with no observable positive result, do you just give up, deciding they must not be elect?

    Is there a level of the negative effects of Calvinistic beliefs that would then hinder you from further witnessing to such a person?
     
  2. npetreley

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    It takes a huge burden off my shoulders. I know what my job is, and that is to tell the truth. That's all. Those who are appointed to eternal life will believe. Maybe not that moment, day, or the day after, but they will. Since it's not up to me whether they believe, all I have to do is be faithful in telling the truth.

    There is no issue of giving up. We can't decide if anyone is elect or not. Just because someone seems unreachable today doesn't mean you aren't planting a seed that God will increase at some later time using whatever means He chooses. On the other hand, there's no point in hounding someone who resists, either. God will work the miracle in His own time if the person is among the elect.
     
  3. Jarthur001

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    Please read...

    http://www.rsglh.org/calvinism_and_missions.htm

    A few clips from this site you will find below..

    Total Depravity
     
  4. Jarthur001

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    Unconditional Election
     
  5. Jarthur001

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    Limited" Atonement

     
  6. Jarthur001

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    Irresistible Grace
     
  7. Jarthur001

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    Perseverance of the Saints

     
  8. webdog

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    I agree with this 100%, too, as a non calvinist:thumbs:

    I would like to add that the study of calvinism has helped me to better understand my purpose in the role of salvation. It's not up to me to get them saved, that's Gods' work, so I guess there was something after all that I have taken from calvinism
     
    #8 webdog, Jun 19, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 19, 2006
  9. Blammo

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    Calvinist or not, I don't think you ever stop telling someone about the Gospel.

    My cousin used to witness to me every chance she got. I would hide from her, call her names, and be just plain rude to her. She could have decided it was no use, gave up and left me on the path to hell. But, she persisted. Who knows how long this went on? Then one night, I couldn't sleep so I got up and turned on the light. I went over to my dresser, (didn't know why), opened the top drawer and found a note from my cousin. It read something along the lines of, "If you ever want to get saved, remember, you are a sinner... etc.". She had some scripture references in the note, (I'm not sure at the time if I had ever even seen a Bible). My first thought was why did I keep this? Then my thoughts turned to what she had told me. Bible verses came to mind, (as if I had memorized them), verses she had quoted to me, once. I began to feel weak. I began to realize what a wretch I was. I climbed back into bed, feeling the weight of all my sin. Questions began coming to mind, questions that were answered by a book I had never even read. But, thanks to the persistence of my cousin, (thanks be to God), verses from the book I had never read were there to answer. I realized I couldn't resist anymore. At the very moment I began to pray I was filled with joy. At that moment I knew God was real, I knew He had saved me. I never felt more alive then at that moment. Christ died for my sins, He was buried, and rose again the third day.

    I don't think you ever stop witnessing to anyone. Never give up.

    2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
     
  10. Benjamin

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    Great testimony Blammo!

    I would say that after hearing hyper-Calvinists affirming to a searching person that he was probably not elect because of his professed difficulty in struggling to know Christ I became very putout with the doctrine. But now I would tell that person those people are nothing more than a cult and that a good Christian/Calvinist would not use the doctrine to diminish his hopes using intellectual arrogance to discourage from the Gospel message.
     
  11. RandR

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    I will simply echo npetreley's comments but add one:

    It reminds me that I don't have to badger people. Give the gospel. Offer an invitation. Let the Holy Spirit do HIS job. Leave the badgering and pestering to those with a lower view of God's effectual calling.
     
  12. pinoybaptist

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    I find nothing to dispute with what you said, np, except perhaps, the means part.
    I believe God uses no means to quicken, regenerate, or bring His people around.
    Other than that, I agree with you 100%, especially with 'those who are appointed to eternal life will believe'.(bold mine).

    [​IMG]
     
    #12 pinoybaptist, Jun 19, 2006
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  13. Tom Butler

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    Thus we have here the difference between Calvinist Baptists and Primitive Baptists (Hyper-Calvinists). One subscribes to I Corinthians 1:21, that it pleased God to save those who believe through the foolishness of preaching. The means here is the preaching of the Word. The other holds that those whom God elects will be saved independently of the Gospel. On all, or nearly all, other facets of the doctrines of Grace, the two agree.

    We agree that quickening or regeneration are sovereign acts of the Holy Spirit and Him only.

    And in line with the OP, yes, Calvinists and Hyper-Calvinists do differ in their approach to mission and evangelism because of their difference over means.
     
  14. npetreley

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    I'm sorry I used the word "means". It has doctrinal connotations that I forgot to consider. All I meant was that God will work it however He works it, whenever He works it, and it is not up to us to decide someone is beyond reach.

    I do believe God uses "means" in the sense that He makes sure we hear a well-timed word, or experience a life-changing event, or whatever. But those are not THE means by which we are saved, and I didn't mean (no pun intended) to imply that.
     
  15. Tom Butler

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    npet, I think most of us understood your use of "means" as meaning the preaching of the gospel from the pulpit, through personal witnessing, a tract, a TV or radio program. The means always involves the gospel. And that is where Calvinists and Primitive Baptists see it differently.
     
  16. Salamander

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    OK< so we all know that Primitives and Reformed baptists differ, :wavey: but are not ALL people "lost" before salvation and in need to be witnessed to?

    I do understand that some can be a better witness to others. I know peresonally that the Gospel can and will be better received from one person to the next.:praying:

    Also, I know that Jesus came to seek and save the lost. :praise: :Fish:
     
  17. Tom Butler

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    Salamander, Pinoybaptist can defend his Primitive Baptist beliefs better than I. My answer is yes, all lost people need to hear a witness of the gospel. But Pinoybaptist would say not necessarily. He will hold that some people are going to be saved without ever hearing the gospel.

    Can you see that what you believe drives how you evangelize, do missions and personal witnessing? Arminians gear their evangelize according to their view of human will and a general atonement. So do Calvinists and hyper-Calvinists.

    For instance, Arminians will say "Christ died for you." Cals and hyper-Cals would never say that. They might say, "Christ died for sinners just like you." Arminians will want you to pray "The Sinner's Prayer." Cals and hyper-Cals--uh uh.

    Where you start does determine how you want to get there and how you end up.
     
  18. npetreley

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    I know next to nothing about Primitive Baptists, but I would agree that some people may be saved without hearing the Gospel. I don't know for a fact that some will be saved without hearing the Gospel, but I tend to avoid putting God in a box where anything is concerned. If God wants to save someone without bringing the Gospel to him, that's up to God. He's in charge.
     
  19. Tom Butler

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    Npet, certainly God could save some people independently of the gospel, if he so wills. He also could save people without Jesus having to go through that messy business on Calvary, if he so willed. But one must explain away I Cor 1:21, where Paul states unequivocally that God is pleased to save people through the foolishness of preaching.

    If that is putting God in a box, it is a box He put himself in.

    If the Primitives are right about means, then for goodness sake, let's not take the gospel anywhere, lest people hear it, reject it and condemn themselves to Hell.
     
  20. npetreley

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    Well, except that Calvary was His plan and it has already been executed. And when the Bible says that no one comes to the Father except through Jesus, I find that to be an absolute. It isn't putting God in a box to say that there are no exceptions, because the verse says there are no exceptions.

    I don't know of any verse that says one MUST be saved by hearing the Gospel, and no other way. I know of verses that say "faith comes by hearing, and hearing [comes by] the uttered word of God". But that isn't restrictive, it is instructive.

    Remember, it's easy to turn verses into rules that God breaks all the time. "It is appointed for man once to die". Yeah, but Lazarus, Dorcas, and many others died more than once. So obviously this isn't an absolute.

     

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