The Elect are the Who-so-evers.

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by AAA, Jan 11, 2008.

  1. AAA

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    The Arminians quote a verse that say "who-so-ever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved", this seems to indicate ANYONE can call upon the name of the LORD and be saved. However, the ONLY ones that will call on the name of the LORD are those that GOD "predestined to become Christians before the foundations of the world.", so logic dictates that ONLY the ELECT are the who-so-evers, because the non-whosoevers will NOT call upon the name of the LORD and be saved, nor will they ever call upon the name of the LORD, because they do not even want leave the bondage of sin.

    This post was a spin off of :

    http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=1163265&posted=1#post1163265


    I agree with the above mentioned post, because of the logic...
     
    #1 AAA, Jan 11, 2008
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  2. Nicholas25

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    Predestination is very much controversial!
     
  3. Rippon

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    How right you are Triple A ! The word 'whosoever' has been used in a most contorted way by many non-Cals . We can really say 'those who' . The connotation of 'whosoever' makes it seem so nebulous and indefinite , whereas God's election of His own is ordered and set in eternity past .
     
  4. PK

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    You guys can twist the scriptures to say whatever you want. Thank God that where sin abounds (sin effects everyone) Gods grace abounds more (to all sinners in sin).
     
    #4 PK, Jan 11, 2008
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  5. Brother Bob

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    Spin this one for starters then I give you some more.....:)

    1Jo 2:2And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for [the sins of] the whole world.

    BBob,
     
  6. AAA

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    That verse does not mean that everyone will be saved, the whole world will not call upon the name of the Lord and be saved even though The LORD is NOT willing that ANY should perish (2 Petr 3:9).

    "The LORD takes NO pleaser in the death of the wicked"............
     
  7. tinytim

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    Or you could say that the elect are the ones that who so ever willed...


    God chose.. I chose... we live happily everafter...
     
  8. PK

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    Rom 2:11-16

    Every person in the world has been warned either by the Word or the law. So God is not a respecter of persons and every man has or will have some sort of call to be saved, right? The Bible says that even creation itself proclaims Him. "They are without excuse".
    How are the non-elect without excuse?
    Romans 5:20 leaves no limit on atonement and if Grace is irresistible then I guess this is a promise that everyone who has ever sinned will be saved, right? How is Jesus Christ the Savior of the non-elected in 1 Timothy 4:10? It says that He is the Saviour of all men (maybe He didn't mean all here) especially those that believe (guess "all" meaning "elected only" is out?). I sure see some refusal going on in Prov. 1:24-25 and Paul said that we could frustrate the grace of God by teaching that salvation is in keeping the law.
     
  9. donnA

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    In that case, as you quote it, there would no unforgiven people, all would be going to heaven, none would go to hell, it's automatic by your reasoning.
     
  10. PK

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    Calvinist say its not irresistible; The Bible say's it's available for the ones who have sinned.
     
  11. Frogman

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    Dear Brother Bob,
    Is not the whole world to be renewed? Is that possible apart from Christ being a propitiation for all of creation? Rom. 8

    Bro. Dallas:thumbs:
     
  12. AAA

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    Very true...

    Now, what is your opinion of the whosoevers?
     
  13. AAA

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    Calvinist should ponder this!

    How then does the bible say that there has been poeple who have resisted the Holy Spirit?
     
  14. AAA

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    1. Why, because GOD put it in thier heart to obey...

    2. God chose you first. You chose GOD, because of above point # 1.
     
  15. Frogman

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    Sorry Triple A, didn't mean to be hijacking the thread with my previous post. I believe the whosoevers of scripture are all those for whom Christ died and they each and everyone will be brought to the birth by the Holy Spirit because of His reconciling them once and for all to God.

    I believe none but those particular whosoevers will ever be enabled to hear the gospel.

    Another poster said whosoever was an indefinite #. I agree to our finite minds it is, we do not know. We don't need to make it any kind of other number. God knows, Christ knows and the Holy Spirit knows all who were chosen in Christ. Thus, the whole # cannot be lacking one, and whether one or one trillions of trillions, not one will fail of the Grace of God.

    bro. Dallas
     
  16. Rippon

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    Is "Whosoever" Like "Whatever " ?

    I'm in large agreement with you Bro. Dallas . However , I was the poster who said that the modern connotation of the word "whosoever" makes it seem as if it implies an indistinctness or an indefinite quality . I am against that understanding . It's not biblical . I believe in particularism -- that's what the Gospel is about . Christ came to die with specific intent and purpose . He laid down His life for certain individuals who He had set His love upon in eternity past . He did not die "for" those facing eternal condemnation .

    The atonement that Christ made completely satisfied God's justice . His atonement completely paid the sin-debt for every person -- but some of those for which He made atonement will still go to Hell ?! No , that is turning Scripture on its head .
     
  17. Rippon

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    Romans 5:20 ( TNIV ) : The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase . But where sin increased grace increased all the more .

    But that has nothing to do with what you are saying .
     
  18. Rippon

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    B.B. Warfield : The Plan Of Salvation p.49

    It is useless to talk of salvation being for "whosoever will" in a world of universal "won't." Here is the real point of difficulty : how , where , can we obtain the will ? let others rejoice in a "whosoever will gospel" : for the sinner who knows himself to be a sinner , and knows what it is to be a sinner , only a "God will" gospel will suffice . If the gospel is to be committed to the dead wills of sinful men , and there is nothing above and beyond , who then can be saved ?
     
  19. KJVkid

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    Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

    Here hyper-calvinist is your saving Grace!
     
  20. pinoybaptist

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    Then that grace has appeared to Idi Amin, to Hitler, to Stalin, to the Green River Killer, to the BTK killer, to Osama bin Laden, to the Night Stalker, to the child rapist who raped and murdered a child as soon as he got out on parole, to all the cannibals who ever quartered a fellow human being, to all the Amalekites, to all men who existed before the Bible was written, to all men who existed outside of Biblical lands, to all die-hard communists and atheists, to all murderous rebels, etc., etc., etc.

    And since the Bible says "by grace through faith are ye saved" and "grace and truth came by Jesus Christ" then ALL men HAVE ALREADY been saved including the ones mentioned above, and they will be your companions in heaven, right ?

    Now I suppose you are one who say that the gospel must be preached to all men in all the world, and I say to you, in accordance with your use of the word "all" by which you refer to brethren in Christ as Hyper Calvinists, that there is NO NEED to preach the gospel to the whole world because the Bible says it has ALREADY been preached, as evidenced by the two texts below:

    Colossians 1:3-8
    "
    3 We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you, 4 Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love which ye have to all the saints, 5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel; 6 Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth: "

    Romans 10:15-18

    15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report F39? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. 18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. "

    So, what saith you regardin this ?

    Does your rule now change as to the use of the word "all" when it comes to something you believe ? That the gospel MUST be preached to ALL the world because here the Bible does not really mean what it says ?



     
    #20 pinoybaptist, Jan 12, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 12, 2008

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