THE ENTIRE BIBLE

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Claudia_T, May 20, 2006.

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Do we need to keep the Law of God today?

  1. I believe that the Ten Commandment Law of God was abolished at the Cross

    100.0%
  2. I believe that we are not free to break the Ten Commandment Law of God today even though Jesus died

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T
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    Just watching some of the posts on this Forum, I have come to the conclusion that one of the worst tendency people seem to have is that they will ISOLATE Bible stories, Passages, and Verses from the rest of the Bible and then come to a decision based on that one scripture, to the neglect of the rest of the Bible.

    For instance, take a look at just these Bible verses as an example:. Now at first glance, one could read these two verses in ISOLATION and think "well there you have it! I am saved by faith alone and works dont matter! I dont need to keep the Law of God, it has been ABOLISHED:

    Ephesians 2:
    8: For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    9: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    But now, let us be reasonable, shall we?

    WHAT IS SIN? Lets allow the Bible to answer this question...

    1Jn:3:4: Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.


    SIN by Bible definition, is TRANSGRESSION OF THE LAW... What Law? THE TEN COMMANDMENTS! of course.

    So then are we free now to TRANSGRESS that same Law because we are under grace? Let the Bible instruct you...


    Rom:6:
    1: What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
    2: God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

    Rom:6:15: What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

    Well whats the answer? shall we SIN (break those Ten Commandments, the Law of God)because we are now under grace?

    and your answer is? Yes________ No________


    That is one of the biggest reasons, I think, that Christians fall off the path.


    People will take each little story, each little Bible verse or passage...


    Then they will figure out some way to twist that scripture or story to fit their ideas of what they want for it to say.


    Its EASIER that way to twist things... to isolate parts of the Bible from everything else.


    But you must look at THE WHOLE THING!! When there are so many other verses that let us know that you must keep the commandments, you must repent of sin... then if you look at those and COMPARE these scriptures with the individual stories, passages and verses, you come away with an entirely different perspective on what the Bible is really saying.


    Notice the part about COMPARING spiritual things with spiritual things:


    1Cor:2:13: Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.


    Just like when we read that "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: Not of works, lest any man should boast"

    But guess what children of God?

    Those same Scriptures inspired by the Holy Ghost ALSO ALSO ALSO tell us we are NOT free now to TRANSGRESS THAT LAW!!

    Thats why people need to stop isolating scriptures and stories and verses... Kind of like this, but only with Bible verses instead of people:


    Prov:24:6: in multitude of counsellers there is safety.


    Now I would like for everyone to please take the Poll.

    Are you a LEGALIST if you keep the Ten Commandment Law of God? Are you a LEGALIST if you tell others they need to keep the Ten Commandment Law of God?
     
  2. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001
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    I did not vote for I was limited in my choice. I add (other) below..

    1) I believe that the Ten Commandment Law of God was abolished at the Cross
    2) I believe that we are not free to break the Ten Commandment Law of God today even though Jesus died on the Cross
    3) Other..MY VOTE IS HERE >>>The law was abolished in justification but is still intact in separation.

    *********

    This seems to be a hard subject for some to understand, for they keep bringing it up.

    as to this statement..
    "Are you a LEGALIST if you keep the Ten Commandment Law of God? Are you a LEGALIST if you tell others they need to keep the Ten Commandment Law of God?"
    *****************

    Keeping the law does not make you a legalist by itself. A legalist keeps the law and then turns and points their finger and tells others they should be like them.

    IN Christ...James
     
  3. BobRyan

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    I like that James...

    It amounts to - "Only the wicked need to listen to the Word of our Creator God spoken at Sinai and think about their obligation to honor it. The People of Christ should just ignore it.".

    What a great way to state that view!

    Of course the "good news is" that even in that view God's Law is allowed to be continued and "established as still authorotative and binding on mankind " in the case of the "wicked" at least.

    So "at least the wicked" would be allowed to say with Paul "our faith ESTABLISHES the LAW of GOD" Rom 3:31 and in Eph 6 they could read vs 1-4 and actually follow the point as the Ten Commandents are appealed to as "authorotative" and argued as the authority for our oblication to honor parents.

    The wicked could then read James 2 and agree that they need to follow his commands related to the Ten Commandments.

    Of course - once they are saved - they would not need to read those texts "in agreement" any more except to think "this text is for the wicked to agree with"

    In Christ,

    Bob

    [ May 20, 2006, 02:40 PM: Message edited by: BobRyan ]
     
  4. BobRyan

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    In Rev 12 we read that the saints of God "keep the commandments of God" -- but I believe that James is trying to say "Not because they think it is right for mankind to listen to God in that regard - they just happen to like doing it as sort of a custom on their part".

    What a wonderful view James!

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  5. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T
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    Okay so what you are saying is that John is a Legalist?

    1Jn:2:3: And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

    1Jn:2:4: He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

    1Jn:3:22: And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

    1Jn:3:24: And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
     
  6. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001
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    Hello Bob,


    Hers is a idea Bob, if you do not understand what I'm saying, why not ask?

    You said..
    No not really. let me make myself clear. The law will not save us. We are to live a separated life. Now..how far do we take the Law? That is what we are asking. I know your short anwser will be.."As far as the Bible tells us"

    Ok..let us look at that. Many believers think that ladies should cover their head as they go into church. They pull out a few verses and point to them as proof. To them this is the law of God.

    Others read this in another way, and so they say that a lady can go to church without her head covered.

    A LEGALIST is...for you to think others should do as you, for your way is holy. Both views can fall into this. If i believe I am more in line with God and whatever side of this matter I may be on..and I turn a try to cram my few down your face for you see it another way...THAT IS A LEGALIST.

    Whatever law we follow if we do it for it makes us holy it is wrong. We do it to bring glory to God.

    Therefore i say again...its not if you keep the law...its why you keep it..and they way you view others that do not.

    Yes..tis the Bible

    This is wacky. The wicked can keep the law all they want..and it will never help them. Good law keepers that have no faith in God will go to hell. If you are the "wicked"...and you reject Christ..you may as well live it up in sin. Good works will not help you in salvation.

    You better check this...is not james 2 addressing jewish believers? look at james 1:1 and get back with us. [​IMG] I'm not sure why you think the unsaved wicked world would follow God. And even if they kept the law..do you really think this alone would help them?


    In Christ..James
     
  7. billwald

    billwald
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    Who is "we," Kemosabe? The Mosiac Covenant was a social contract for Israel and has nothing to do with gentiles living in Newark. Jewish Christians are probably obligated to observe the commandments (out of the 613 statements) that are still apply since the Destruction.

    That being said, 9 out of the 10 words are repeated in the NT. Gentile Christians are obligated to observe them because they are NT Law and not because they are mentioned in the listing of 613 - or of 10.
     
  8. billwald

    billwald
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    The WORST tendency is to read the Bible backwards. Moses established the canon (rule) in Deut.
     
  9. Jarthur001

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    Oh really? what else am i saying?

    oh never mind that... [​IMG]

    As I have not really shared "WHY" on this tread...to keep from you reading my mind..let me say...you are wrong. sorry...it happens to the best of us. [​IMG] You must have been reading james deans mine...or something. [​IMG]

    We follow the Law for we LOVE Him and worship Him and would have it no other way.

    Now...you can quote me on that one. [​IMG]

    In Christ...James
     
  10. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T
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    really? the Jewish believers? well where are WE being addressed?
     
  11. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001
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    Hello Claudia,

    I think you said you read the KJV.

    James 1:1
    James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

    No need to change translations because the KJV does not agree with your view on this. As it turns out...all translations say the same.

    But...that is not the point. Bob said this was to the wicked which means unsaved. This is clearly not the case. This was addressed to the Jewish believers, but all believers can learn from this.

    However...it is silly to say this is to the non-believer. What good would keeping the law do for those that do not believe?

    I'll tell you what..NOTHING No good at all.


    In Christ...James
     
  12. J. Jump

    J. Jump
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    Claudia nobody is neglecting other Scripture and basing anything on a verse or two. It's quite the opposite. We are comparing Scripture with Scripture.

    What you try to do is read Ephesians 2:8-9 and say yeah I agree with that. Then you go to Romans are wherever and take some verse there that clearly disagrees with Ephesians and you completely forget what Ephesians had to say.

    Just to take the example that you have Ephesians says salvation is by grace through faith not of works. That's pretty plain.

    So when you come to Romans or James and works are mentioned what you do is instead of taking things in context, you try to cram a round peg in a square hole to make the two things fit together.

    What we are doing is taking the circle pegs and making sure they fit in the circle holes and the square pegs and making sure they fit in the square holes to keep everything from getting broken.

    You clearly can't see that there are two different topics being discussed. Instead you see one topic that clearly doesn't mesh with another topic, yet your try to make it the same topic.

    If we would compare Scripture with Scripture that wouldn't happen.
     
  13. Brother Bob

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    Somehow it did matter to the Lord that a sinner keep the Law or else why did He ask the young man, "thou knowest the Law" of which he answered, these have I kept since my youth up but it still had not give him everlasting life for he asked the Lord "what must I do to inherit everlasting life". Now what he had done was important to the Lord of keeping the Commandments and he lacketh one thing, "Salvation" which is of the Lord who said sale all thou hath and give to the poor (which everyone gets stuck on but the important part is this:) "come and follow me".

    You say, Salvation is by Grace but do not go on to say that by Grace we keep the Law. Grace brings Salvation but it also teacheth us to deny ungodliness, worldly lust, live soberly and righteously in this present world, etc. and righteouly is "the righteous of the Law is fulfilled in us".
     
  14. Claudia_T

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    Brother Bob,

    You are absolutely right. But they will just say Jesus was talking to the Jews... Then when you bring up Romans they will say PAUL also was talking to the Jews in the book of Romans.

    I would just like to know when they think God is talking to US?

    I wonder why they think God is talking to US in Ephesians 2?
     
  15. J. Jump

    J. Jump
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    Bob salvation by grace through faith is not an inheritance. When you are saved you are in possession of life. It's not something you wait for as an inheritance.

    Once again you are trying to force a circle peg into a square hole. Bottom line is that passage is not talking about eternal salvation. It doesn't matter how much you dance or how much you twist the Scripture it's not going to say what you want it to say.

    Salvation by grace through faith is a gift, not an inheritance. Why is that so difficult to see?
     
  16. Claudia_T

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    Oh really? well how exactly do you put this in context?

    "Should we sin now because we are under grace? NO"

    HOW WOULD you suggest putting that in context? It appears to me your method is to say

    "Should we sin now because we are under grace? YES"

    You can only have one of two answers... no or yes.
     
  17. Claudia_T

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    James,

    Let's you try and put this verse in context for us, ok?


    1Jn:3:15: Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.


    Jesus said the law hangs on these two points, love God, and love your neighbor. Jesus said dont be angry with your brother or you may as well have murdered him..

    John says if you hate your brother (in other words if you dont love your brother) (keep the commandments) YOU DO NOT HAVE ETERNAL LIFE.

    Let's see you spin that one, James, show us how to put it into context?

    Lets see, it would have to be:

    Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that a murderer HAS eternal life abiding in him.
     
  18. Brother Bob

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    JJ; Why!!! do you always have to add your little comments to try and put someone down. Is that the Christian way for if it is I never was taught it.

    Inheritance or gift, you still fail to see that Grace continues on with a Christian so the righteous of the Law is fulfilled in us. I see you never comment on that one.
     
  19. J. Jump

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    How absurd. This obviously shows that you are not reading and or understanding what I have been saying. Please find ONE quote from me where I said it was okay to sin.

    That is absolutely a false representation of my beliefs. No one has the right to sin. If a Christian continues in rebellious sin they will be paid according to their deads, just as a Christian that allows the Spirit to control their life will be paid according to their deeds.

    But look at the verse that you gave: Should we sin now because we are under grace? NO"

    Once again you lay out yourself in plain writing the key SHOULD we sin. No we SHOULD NOT. That doesn't mean we can't. That means we shouldn't. Those are two totally different concepts.

    No one has advocating giving anyone a free pass, nor does the Bible. But one's works whether Godly or wicked have nothing to do with one's eternal salvation, because we know that's not of works.
     
  20. J. Jump

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    Bob I haven't commented on grace because there is no point, because we can't even get past point A. There is no use going on to point B if point A is not agreed upon.

    Seeing the difference between gift or inheritance is a HUGE key.

    As to you first comment I have no idea what you are talking about. What comment did I make that was offensive to you?
     

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