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The EU

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Matt Black, May 19, 2004.

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  1. mioque

    mioque New Member

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    "Mioque, were you being sarcastic?"
    ""
    Most of the time, but not in this case. ;)
     
    #21 mioque, May 21, 2004
  2. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
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    Cheers, mioque!

    Bartholomew, I think what you posted illustrates the same kind of dilemmas ref UKIP that consevative Christians in the States have re Michael Peroutka

    Yours in Christ

    Matt
     
    #22 Matt Black, May 21, 2004
  3. Scott J

    Scott J Active Member
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    Many of the details I have heard preached in the past concerning the 10 nation confederacy in Europe have been false but some overarching suggestions have come true.

    - One currency and the progressive uniting of Europe under one government.

    - A secular state/organization with broad support from the ecumenical-Roman union.

    - Movement away from physical currency and to some type of implanted/imprinted credit mechanism.
     
    #23 Scott J, May 21, 2004
  4. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    These are part of the EU?
     
    #24 NaasPreacher (C4K), May 22, 2004
  5. mioque

    mioque New Member

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    Asking the same rethorical question overhere.
     
    #25 mioque, May 22, 2004
  6. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    Of course Mioque, someone will probably question my view since I am a "foreigner" ;) .
     
    #26 NaasPreacher (C4K), May 22, 2004
  7. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
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    Scott, you fail to note that d'Estaing's view of the future make up of Europe to which you alluded above got rejected by the European member states last year. It appears you haven't understood the recent moves over the constitution for Europe (a document which becomes more mangled with each revision and hasn't even been ratified by the Heads of Government yet!), d'Estaing put forward his version, being the major architect of the thing, and it was rejected.

    I still fail to see any reasonable logical connection between the RCC and the EU. For those of you who don't know, the Treaty of Rome, like the Maastricht treaty later gives the Document signed a locational name. If it gets signed at an IGC (Inter Governmental Conference) in Dublin, it becomes the Dublin Treaty . The 6 founding nations of the EEC signed in Rome in '57. They didn't join the Catholic Church.


    I'll just and hopefully finally, deal with this nonsense about 'world order'. The Meber states of the EU, having looked at the world (and having dealt with being stuck in the middle of a 45 year power struggle) have decided that they are stronger as an economic unit, a military unit and a political unit if they talk with one voice on certain issues. They haven't decided how this will work yet though. Now I know this might seem odd to some people but no one country has the divine right to rule the world. In England we dealt with the divine right of Kings just after dealing with the divine right of nations (that's why they don't speak Spanish as a first language in most of North America). It makes more political sense for Europe, as a massive trading and military bloc, to assert itself as a single unit rather than being ignored when it talks piecemeal. That's about it. Europe's bricking itself over Chinese and Indian renewed economic boom and is looking to protect itself in the long run. Much like America has been doing for the last 50 years. It ain't fulfilling biblical prophecy that we're going to stamp our authority over the world. Lets face it can you see Greece being organised enough to stamp on anything? Look at the Olympic stadium - 94 days left, no roof. Yes, we are more left wing than some areas, so what? I like free healthcare at the point of service.

    I've been around long enough to hear that 3 or 4 different nations / things / minor bodies are the harbinger of the antichrist. Strangely these all seem to be things that are in opposition with the USA at times, this causes me to wonder.

    Personally, I'm betting on the WTO, I can't trust men who wear suits when its over about 25 degrees...

    Yours in Christ

    Matt
     
    #27 Matt Black, May 22, 2004
  8. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    Matt, you have just exposed your complicity in the conspiracy by referring to Celsius temperature. Everyone, yes everyone in the civilized world knows temperatures should be expressed in the Fahrenheit scale.

    As I grow older, though, I agree with you about the propriety of dressing formally in heat. It's typically above 38C here in the summer, and I've camped out at 45C.
     
    #28 rsr, May 22, 2004
  9. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
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    Hmm...the last 'Metric Martyr' over here keeled over and died of a heart attack a few months ago, so I don't want to emulate his example. We've only used Celsius here for a least my lifetime

    But otherwise give me the 'old money' anytime*!

    Yours in Christ

    Matt

    *Note to US viewers - this is a British phrase referring to predecimal coinage originally (pounds, shillings and pence) but now often used to express any kind of pre-metric measurement eg: "25 degrees, that's about 77 in old money"
     
    #29 Matt Black, May 22, 2004
  10. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    #30 poncho, May 23, 2004
  11. mioque

    mioque New Member

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    The standard list of the Beast/Woman in the book of Revelations candidates since the fall of the USSR.
    The UN
    The EU
    The RCC
    Islam
    The Yellow Menace
    And ofcourse the US
    It makes one homesick for the days everybody simply accused Shaka Zulu of being the Anti-Christ.
     
    #31 mioque, May 25, 2004
  12. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
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    I didn't realise you were THAT old!!!

    Actually, the Yellow Menace was of course a type of custard we were forced to eat at school...

    Yours in Christ

    Matt
     
    #32 Matt Black, May 25, 2004
  13. mioque

    mioque New Member

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    Never ask a lady about her age.
     
    #33 mioque, May 25, 2004
  14. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
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    You just confessed - at least 135

    Yours in Christ

    Matt
     
    #34 Matt Black, May 25, 2004
  15. Bartholomew

    Bartholomew New Member

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    Hi again Matt,

    I see what you mean, and I wish it were more like that. I would SO much like to vote for a party/candidate on the basis of their view on abortion, or the family, or some other really important issue, no matter how much of a "minority" their party was in. I'd do my best to make it a "majority" party. But my problem is that our country is being ruled so much now from Europe, by politicians we can't remove, that I think the most important thing is to get out of the EU before we do anything else. The simple fact is that whilst we are part of the EU, their rules will ALWAYS over-ride the ones made by our parliament. So if I want to influence my country's stance on abortion, the family, etc., I have to get my country's sovreignty back so that we can act with a free hand. True, Europe doesn't have total power. Yet...

    Oh, BTW, did you see the latest opinion poll as published in the Daily Telegraph (which disagrees with UKIP's policy of leaving the EU?) It puts UKIP in third place (behind Conservative and Labour, and ahead of the Lib Dems) among those who are "very likely to vote" in the coming European elections. They reckon they'll get 12 seats - maybe more. I think proves voting for them is NOT a wasted vote.

    To all those UK citizens out there: send a message to all the political parties. VOTE UKIP!

    www.ukip.org [​IMG]
     
    #35 Bartholomew, May 25, 2004
  16. mioque

    mioque New Member

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    "You just confessed - at least 135"
    ''
    Actually Shaka died in 1828, making me even older.
     
    #36 mioque, May 25, 2004
  17. Baptist in Richmond

    Baptist in Richmond Active Member

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    This is an interesting statement.
    If the Anti-Christ will be Islamic, then how will the Jewish people accept him as the Messiah? If they accept him as the Messiah, then won't he lose his Muslim support?

    Your thoughts? Anyone?
     
    #37 Baptist in Richmond, May 25, 2004
  18. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
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    Oops, sorry, got him confused with Cetawayo [​IMG]

    Bartholomew, I did see the Telegraph poll. I have to admit this does make me more inclined to vote UKIP in the Euro elections as there does seem evidence of a bandwagon developing there, but I'll still vote Tory in the locals the same day and will do so come the general election too. BTW, isn't the Euro election on the basis of PR, so I can vote UKIP as first preference and Conservative second etc? Did you also see Norman Tebbit's comment in the Telegraph on I think Monday calling for Howard to be more Eurosceptic?

    Yours in Christ

    Matt
     
    #38 Matt Black, May 26, 2004
  19. Bartholomew

    Bartholomew New Member

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    Hi Matt [​IMG]
    Good idea. Although I will vote UKIP in all the elections, I can see your point - I know other people who are doing the same. Did you know that Michael Howard made the Conservatives rejoin the EED group in the European Parliament? That's a very pro-federalist group, and he made his MEP candidates agree to it or face de-selection. If UKIP gets lots of votes, it will send a message not only to Blair, but to Howard, too. Who knows, if the politicians see there are votes in an anti-EU policy, one of the main parties might even start advocating it!
    Yep, it's PR, but not single-transferable vote. That means you only get one vote, but the votes are considered over a whole region, and seats allocated roughly on the basis of the percentage of votes each party got in that region. So you can't put an order of preference, but small parties still have a good chance of getting seats (especially UKIP).
    Sure did. Wouldn't it be great if old Stormin Norman became Tory leader?! I'd rejoin the party tomorrow.

    This election's kind of exciting, isn't it? [​IMG]
     
    #39 Bartholomew, May 26, 2004
  20. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
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    Normo is a bit old now, but he's a good Thatcherite. Hopefully, Howard will listen to the likes of him and other such editorial comments, but more importantly the electorateon June 10th. Go on then, you've convinced me - UKIP it is for the Euro elections, but Tory for local!

    Yours in Christ

    Matt
     
    #40 Matt Black, May 27, 2004
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