The Five Lies of Islam

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by LadyEagle, May 21, 2003.

  1. LadyEagle

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  2. CatholicConvert

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    Very compelling. Well presented.

    Of course, the Orthodox Church has known this for a millenia. History is filled with martyrs of the Orthodox Faith who would not accept Islam and accepted the martyr's crown instead.

    Thanks for the great site.

    Cordially in Christ,

    Brother Ed
     
  3. Eladar

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    I thought the Catholic Church now believes that Muslims are going to heaven.
     
  4. CatholicConvert

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    The Catholic Church is in a state of disaray right now. Many people are teaching things which contradict traditional orthodox teachings as handed down by the apostles and taught for 2 miillenia.

    The clear teaching of the Catholic Catechism is that one must come to Jesus the Christ for salvation, and outside of Him, there is none. I stand upon the foundation of the apostles when I state that without Christ, one's chances of Heaven are slim and none

    Now why did I say slim?

    Because I do not know the mind of God fully regarding this issue, but I do know something of the justice and mercy of God. As we have said before, those who are without Christ through no fault of their own are in a different situation than those who both KNOW AND REJECT.

    Noted convert and Catholic apologist Dave Armstrong has well stated that the Catholic Church has a habit of taking marvellous truths and clouding them with words. I couldn't agree more. I am tired of encyclicals which are written for the intelligentsia and which make obtuse and wordy statements which make it sound like the Muslims have a chance of Heaven without Christ. I long for the day that the Church proclaims a distinct and clear message:

    "REPENT and COME TO CHRIST or DIE ETERNALLY!!"

    I think saying it that way would be very hard to misunderstand, don't you?

    Cordially in Christ,

    Brother Ed

    PS For those of my Catholic brothers who think that such a statement would be "tactless" and would drive people away, show me from Scripture where it says we are to substitute truth with the mushy eccumenicism we see in the Church now in hopes of not making enemies. Those who hate Christ will continue to do so, no matter how nicely we suggest, plead, bargain, and beg that they come to Him. And those who are under conviction of sin, upon whom the Holy Spirit is working, will come to Christ no matter how badly the message is garbled.
     
  5. GraceSaves

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    While this isn't the topic at hand really, so if you wanna let it die, that is fine...

    I've seen "hellfire and brimstone" not reach people, whereas more loving tactics certainly have. Some tactics reach some people while others reach others. Plus, you contradict your own statement, when you say that one MUST repent and believe or be eternally dead, but you just said that those who do not know, through no fault of their own, are in a different situation. It can't be both ways, because the first way excludes the second.

    Sorry...that just stuck out with me.

    God bless,

    Grant
     
  6. Kathryn

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    I just want to point out that in any situation, where anyone is saved, salvation would be through the merits of Jesus Christ on the cross, who died for all men.

    If unbaptized babies are saved, it is only possible by the merits of Jesus Christ on the cross. The same could be said for people who seek God, and through no fault of their own, never come to know Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ, as judge of all, makes these decisions, not us. I believe this is the position of the Catholic Church from reading the documents.

    God Bless
     
  7. Eladar

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    What of those Muslims who actively reject Christ as Lord?
     
  8. CatholicConvert

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    Grant -- There is no contradiction in what I said.

    If one has not heart "Repent or die eternally." then one is not responsible and the grace of God is far more abundant to that one than the one who has heard and rejected, or worse yet, killed the missionary who told him.

    Perhaps there is a middle way between "fire and brimstone" and what I see as mush headed ecumenicism at the expense of truth. My response was to the initial question of Tuor, who stated that he thought that the Catholic Church states that Muslims can be saved (implying without Jesus as Savior). I say no and the catechism says no. So do the Early Fathers. So does St. Paul.

    Unfortunately, the Church's recent publications are making that less than clear, causing confusion which need not be.

    Jesus is Savior. Those who reject Him reject the only source of eternal life. What is so hard about understanding and saying that publically?

    Cordially in Christ,

    Brother Ed
     
  9. LadyEagle

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    And so it continues even today. :(

    http://www.persecution.org

    Please pray for our brothers & sisters in Christ who are being tortured, persecuted, and murdered daily in many countries of the world.
     
  10. CatholicConvert

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    Thank you for that site. I filled out the petition to the president of Afganistan.

    There is another very good organization doing wonderful work among the persecuted.

    Voice of the Martyrs helps with practical concerns such as foods, medicines, blankets, money to rebuild burnt out churches, and of course, the Word of God.

    Indeed, let us not only pray for our brothers and sisters who are being persecuted (which I need to more remember to do) but let us thank God for the marvelous freedoms which we enjoy here in America.

    Cordially in Christ and the Blessed Virgin,

    Brother Ed
     
  11. Johnv

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    I think it's clear that anyone who actively rejects Christ as Lord rejects salvation. What's often the issue is whether or not someone has truly had the opportunity to reject. That's a thread all on its own.
     

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